Christian, You Don't Have to Be an AI Doomer

You don't join the You don't join the camp of camp of camp of AI pessimists who believe in AI pessimists who believe in AI pessimists who believe in some kind of " some kind of " Terminator" Terminator" Terminator" scenario, as if this is the scenario, as if this is the scenario, as if this is the end of humanity. This is the end of humanity. This is the end of humanity. This is the worst thing that has ever worst thing that has ever worst thing that has ever happened to us. happened to us. I would like to look I would like to look under the hood of this under the hood of this under the hood of this attitude and attitude and attitude and understand what exactly understand what exactly understand what exactly drives you drives you drives you to approach these to approach these to approach these things in this way. Because in the book you are things in this way. Because in the book you are things in this way. Because in the book you are great at great at great at moving away from the latest moving away from the latest moving away from the latest headlines and reactions headlines and reactions headlines and reactions to everything new in the world of AI to everything new in the world of AI to everything new in the world of AI to a much to a much to a much longer-term longer-term longer-term vision. And I think vision. And I think vision. And I think in the book, if I in the book, if I in the book, if I remember correctly, remember correctly, remember correctly, you talk about you talk about you talk about four pillars that four pillars that four pillars that hold this hold this hold this view up. I would like view up. I would like view up. I would like you to help us you to help us you to help us form a rich, form a rich, form a rich, comprehensive view of comprehensive view of comprehensive view of AI that is not dependent AI that is not dependent AI that is not dependent on what the on what the on what the latest news is. latest news is. I think sometimes people I think sometimes people are too are too are too optimistic or optimistic or optimistic or pessimistic because they pessimistic because they pessimistic because they take one part of take one part of take one part of the Bible, one the Bible, one the Bible, one theological thread, and theological thread, and theological thread, and apply it to the apply it to the apply it to the problem, forgetting problem, forgetting problem, forgetting about the others. For example, about the others. For example, about the others. For example, if you take the thread of if you take the thread of if you take the thread of sin and say: well, sin and say: well, sin and say: well, you know, sin is an you know, sin is an you know, sin is an important part of the important part of the important part of the biblical message.

biblical message. biblical message. Let's apply the doctrine Let's apply the doctrine Let's apply the doctrine of sin to the issue of of sin to the issue of of sin to the issue of AI. Well, you'll eventually AI. Well, you'll eventually AI. Well, you'll eventually think of 10,000 think of 10,000 think of 10,000 ways that ways that ways that human sin will be human sin will be human sin will be committed through this committed through this committed through this new technology. We new technology. We new technology. We will invent new will invent new will invent new ways to sin. ways to sin. ways to sin. Even AI itself Even AI itself Even AI itself trains on trains on trains on human sin. This is a human sin. This is a human sin. This is a manifestation and imitation of manifestation and imitation of manifestation and imitation of human sinful human sinful human sinful nature, gleaned from the nature, gleaned from the nature, gleaned from the human internet. human internet. human internet. So yes, you can So yes, you can So yes, you can explore the doctrine explore the doctrine explore the doctrine of sin, but you have to of sin, but you have to of sin, but you have to remember that sin is remember that sin is remember that sin is not the only category. The not the only category. The not the only category. The profound profound profound sovereignty of God is an sovereignty of God is an sovereignty of God is an extremely important extremely important extremely important thing to thing to thing to think about in the context of think about in the context of think about in the context of artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence, artificial intelligence, because God is because God is because God is in control of everything. in control of everything. in control of everything. Daniel's grand story is a Daniel's grand story is a Daniel's grand story is a story of different story of different story of different kingdoms with their kingdoms with their kingdoms with their technologies, technologies, technologies, all rising and all rising and all rising and falling, but God falling, but God falling, but God remains remains remains sovereign. He sovereign. He sovereign. He continues continues continues to carry out his to carry out his to carry out his plans, so they do not plans, so they do not plans, so they do not become become become catastrophic. catastrophic. catastrophic. The concept of creation is The concept of creation is The concept of creation is very helpful, isn't very helpful, isn't very helpful, isn't it, when you it, when you it, when you think about think about think about what we were created for? what we were created for? what we were created for? In fact, we are In fact, we are In fact, we are toolmakers, and this has been toolmakers, and this has been toolmakers, and this has been ingrained in us from the ingrained in us from the ingrained in us from the very beginning. very beginning. very beginning. Isaiah 28:27 is a very Isaiah 28:27 is a very Isaiah 28:27 is a very helpful passage when helpful passage when helpful passage when you think about the you think about the you think about the positive. It positive. It positive. It says: “For dill is not says: “For dill is not says: “For dill is not threshed with a threshing floor, and threshed with a threshing floor, and threshed with a threshing floor, and caraway is not driven with caraway is not driven with caraway is not driven with cart wheels, for cart wheels, for cart wheels, for dill is beaten out dill is beaten out dill is beaten out with a stick, and caraway with a club with a stick, and caraway with a club .” Do they break .” Do they break .” Do they break grain to grain to grain to make bread? No, they won't make bread? No, they won't make bread? No, they won't thresh him forever.

thresh him forever. thresh him forever. Um, this also comes Um, this also comes Um, this also comes from the Lord of hosts. from the Lord of hosts. from the Lord of hosts. He is wonderful in counsel He is wonderful in counsel He is wonderful in counsel and great in wisdom and great in wisdom . God's wisdom here . God's wisdom here is actually the is actually the is actually the technological technological technological skill that He skill that He skill that He gives to people. Um, so, gives to people. Um, so, gives to people. Um, so, fantasy. So, yes, fantasy. So, yes, fantasy. So, yes, in my book, my in my book, my in my book, my four pillars are four pillars are four pillars are essentially creation, sin and the essentially creation, sin and the essentially creation, sin and the fall, the cross, and the fall, the cross, and the fall, the cross, and the new creation. And I new creation. And I new creation. And I try to try to try to use use use each of them to each of them to each of them to think about this topic, and you think about this topic, and you think about this topic, and you come to really come to really come to really different conclusions by different conclusions by different conclusions by mixing it all together mixing it all together mixing it all together and trying and trying and trying to look at it as a whole to look at it as a whole . I guess I haven't become . I guess I haven't become . I guess I haven't become too too too optimistic about AI, optimistic about AI, optimistic about AI, but I haven't become too but I haven't become too but I haven't become too pessimistic either, because I believe pessimistic either, because I believe pessimistic either, because I believe that God is ultimately that God is ultimately that God is ultimately in control. As in control. As in control. As we come to the we come to the we come to the end of this episode, end of this episode, end of this episode, I'd like to move on to the I'd like to move on to the I'd like to move on to the practical, if I may. practical, if I may. And I would like to know And I would like to know what you see in what you see in what you see in practice? So, you practice? So, you practice? So, you are engaged in are engaged in are engaged in university university university ministry. How are the people ministry. How are the people ministry. How are the people you serve you serve you serve using AI? What does using AI? What does using AI? What does AI do with them?

AI do with them? I think when I was talking I think when I was talking about this in 2023, 2024, and 2025 about this in 2023, 2024, and 2025 about this in 2023, 2024, and 2025 , a lot of people , a lot of people , a lot of people were using AI, but were using AI, but were using AI, but its usefulness was its usefulness was its usefulness was inconsistent. The AI ​​was inconsistent. The AI ​​was inconsistent. The AI ​​was something of a something of a something of a joke, and it got joke, and it got joke, and it got laughs. I typed this into ChatGPT, laughs. I typed this into ChatGPT, laughs. I typed this into ChatGPT, and, great, what did he and, great, what did he and, great, what did he reply this time? reply this time? In 2026, I think this is In 2026, I think this is no longer a joke. I find it no longer a joke. I find it no longer a joke. I find it extremely extremely extremely useful. And I'm at useful. And I'm at useful. And I'm at university in university in university in Australia. And in Australia. And in Australia. And in many disciplines, I many disciplines, I many disciplines, I mean, he is mean, he is mean, he is so far ahead of so far ahead of the students' knowledge and competence that if the students' knowledge and competence that if they gave him they gave him they gave him their assignments or their assignments or their assignments or work, he would get the work, he would get the work, he would get the highest score highest score highest score on almost everything that is on almost everything that is on almost everything that is assessed. I think this is a kind of assessed. I think this is a kind of paradigm shift. We just ca paradigm shift. We just ca n't joke n't joke n't joke about it like we used to. about it like we used to. about it like we used to. He truly became what he was meant to He truly became what he was meant to He truly became what he was meant to be. There are still be. There are still be. There are still some things he some things he some things he can't do and stuff, can't do and stuff, can't do and stuff, but he's pretty but he's pretty but he's pretty impressive. And I think the impressive. And I think the impressive. And I think the scary thought is: what will scary thought is: what will scary thought is: what will happen in 2027? Do you know happen in 2027? Do you know how how how incredible that is? There's a famous incredible that is? There's a famous incredible that is? There's a famous graph created by an graph created by an graph created by an organization organization organization called MIT that called MIT that called MIT that looks at the time looks at the time looks at the time horizon of tasks: horizon of tasks: horizon of tasks: you know, can you you know, can you you know, can you complete a one-minute complete a one-minute complete a one-minute task? Can task? Can task? Can you complete a 10- you complete a 10- minute task?

minute task? minute task? Can you complete an Can you complete an Can you complete an hour-long task? hour-long task? hour-long task? Can you complete the 24- Can you complete the 24- hour task? hour task? hour task? The ability of The ability of The ability of AI to go AI to go AI to go from performing 3- from performing 3- second tasks, second tasks, second tasks, say, with some say, with some say, with some accuracy, to accuracy, to accuracy, to performing 4-hour performing 4-hour performing 4-hour tasks—this is a tasks—this is a tasks—this is a paradigm shift. So what paradigm shift. So what paradigm shift. So what happens when we happens when we happens when we go from 40 go from 40 go from 40 seconds to 40 hours, and seconds to 40 hours, and seconds to 40 hours, and you push a button you push a button you push a button and it does what would and it does what would take an expert 40 hours to do . This is simply . This is simply . This is simply incredible. I think this is a incredible. I think this is a incredible. I think this is a big change. As big change. As big change. As a result, we used to a result, we used to a result, we used to ask more ask more ask more theoretical questions, but theoretical questions, but theoretical questions, but now, in my opinion, we now, in my opinion, we now, in my opinion, we ask more ask more ask more practical ones. We say, practical ones. We say, practical ones. We say, "Okay, what are my "Okay, what are my "Okay, what are my policies?" I policies?" I policies?" I mean, there's a church here mean, there's a church here . What will be the policy . What will be the policy . What will be the policy for young for young for young ministers in the church? Are ministers in the church? Are ministers in the church? Are we okay? we okay? we okay? How do we all feel How do we all feel How do we all feel about Bible studies about Bible studies about Bible studies written by artificial written by artificial written by artificial intelligence and all that intelligence and all that intelligence and all that ? Do we need ? Do we need ? Do we need to set to set to set limits on certain limits on certain limits on certain things? I think these things? I think these things? I think these issues are becoming issues are becoming issues are becoming very, very real for us now very, very real for us now very, very real for us now . . . I completely agree, and I would I completely agree, and I would I completely agree, and I would like you to like you to like you to help listeners and help listeners and help listeners and viewers start viewers start viewers start thinking about this. So, thinking about this. So, thinking about this. So, let's say you're a let's say you're a let's say you're a church leader or a church leader or a church leader or a parent, and you're faced with parent, and you're faced with parent, and you're faced with similar similar similar decisions: What is decisions: What is decisions: What is appropriate appropriate appropriate to use AI to use AI to use AI in in in sermon writing? What is sermon writing? What is sermon writing? What is the point of letting an AI the point of letting an AI the point of letting an AI invent the invent the invent the bedtime story I tell bedtime story I tell bedtime story I tell my students my students my students at the end of the day?

at the end of the day? at the end of the day? Can I write a letter to my Can I write a letter to my Can I write a letter to my wife for Valentine's Day wife for Valentine's Day using AI using AI to help me? to help me? to help me? What are the limits? What What are the limits? What What are the limits? What principles should we principles should we principles should we consider when faced with consider when faced with such such individual individual individual decisions? Is decisions? Is decisions? Is this acceptable in this this acceptable in this this acceptable in this situation or not? situation or not? situation or not? Good. Well, three Good. Well, three Good. Well, three reasons why it's not reasons why it's not reasons why it's not always a bad thing, if always a bad thing, if always a bad thing, if you don't mind. First, you don't mind. First, you don't mind. First, ministry and life ministry and life ministry and life have always taken place in the have always taken place in the have always taken place in the context of change. context of change. Technologies are Technologies are different. We can't different. We can't different. We can't just privilege just privilege just privilege what existed when what existed when what existed when we were growing up, as if it were something we were growing up, as if it were something we were growing up, as if it were something completely normal and completely normal and completely normal and natural, and then natural, and then natural, and then be extremely be extremely be extremely negative about negative about negative about new technologies that are new technologies that are new technologies that are emerging. Even in emerging. Even in emerging. Even in biblical times, there biblical times, there biblical times, there was a transition was a transition was a transition from scrolls to from scrolls to from scrolls to codices: from codices: from codices: from understanding that understanding that understanding that you could have one you could have one you could have one letter to understanding letter to understanding letter to understanding many letters in a many letters in a many letters in a canon, where you could canon, where you could canon, where you could open to the 70th open to the 70th open to the 70th page of your page of your page of your church codex. church codex. church codex. So, this was a big So, this was a big So, this was a big technological shift, and technological shift, and technological shift, and I'm willing to I'm willing to I'm willing to bet there bet there bet there were churches that were churches that were churches that said, "No way." " said, "No way." " We are traditionalists."

We are traditionalists." We are traditionalists." And there were other churches And there were other churches And there were other churches that held that held that held modern services with modern services with modern services with their own codes, so their own codes, so their own codes, so the service was always the service was always the service was always in that context, and in that context, and in that context, and life was always in life was always in life was always in that context. that context. that context. So, we should So, we should So, we should relax a little. And there is, relax a little. And there is, relax a little. And there is, by and by and by and large, nothing large, nothing wrong with the technology itself. You know, wrong with the technology itself. You know, Paul asked for Paul asked for Paul asked for scrolls and parchments to be brought to him scrolls and parchments to be brought to him scrolls and parchments to be brought to him . Um, I . Um, I . Um, I don't think don't think don't think technology should technology should technology should threaten the role of the threaten the role of the threaten the role of the Holy Spirit, because Holy Spirit, because Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit works wonderfully the Holy Spirit works wonderfully the Holy Spirit works wonderfully through secondary through secondary through secondary causes, through causes, through causes, through all sorts of different means, all sorts of different means, all sorts of different means, and the fact that and the fact that and the fact that He works even through He works even through He works even through people—it's amazing. people—it's amazing. people—it's amazing. But He also works But He also works But He also works through technologies through technologies through technologies created by humans. It created by humans. It created by humans. It operates through sound operates through sound operates through sound equipment, you know equipment, you know , through PowerPoint slides , through PowerPoint slides , through PowerPoint slides and a lot of other things and a lot of other things . So I don't want to... In . So I don't want to... In . So I don't want to... In principle, there is principle, there is principle, there is nothing wrong with nothing wrong with nothing wrong with using AI, but using AI, but using AI, but there are dangers and there are dangers and there are dangers and specific cases specific cases specific cases that are worth that are worth that are worth thinking about. We thinking about. We thinking about. We must understand this. Let me must understand this. Let me just start by just start by saying that I am scared by saying that I am scared by saying that I am scared by the fact that right the fact that right the fact that right now hundreds of now hundreds of now hundreds of Bible studies Bible studies Bible studies are being written using various are being written using various are being written using various programs. Um, because we programs. Um, because we programs. Um, because we quietly introduced a quietly introduced a quietly introduced a new editor into new editor into new editor into this process. Um, I this process. Um, I this process. Um, I remember a long time ago remember a long time ago I fed a I fed a sermon about sin and the sermon about sin and the cross into an AI program, and it cross into an AI program, and it cross into an AI program, and it removed any removed any removed any mention of sin and the mention of sin and the mention of sin and the cross. Well, she cross. Well, she cross. Well, she understood my understood my understood my sermon very well, but she sermon very well, but she sermon very well, but she turned it into turned it into turned it into positive, you know, positive, you know, positive, you know, therapeutic language, therapeutic language, therapeutic language, like all religions like all religions like all religions lead to the same thing lead to the same thing lead to the same thing , and everything in that , and everything in that , and everything in that vein. I didn't vein. I didn't vein. I didn't say that, but she say that, but she say that, but she added it. It was added it. It was added it. It was very clumsy then, and I very clumsy then, and I very clumsy then, and I was able to remove it immediately was able to remove it immediately was able to remove it immediately , but I think , but I think , but I think it works it works

it works much more subtly now. I think much more subtly now. I think we are now unknowingly we are now unknowingly we are now unknowingly under the under the under the tutelage of the codes of tutelage of the codes of tutelage of the codes of conduct of Microsoft, Google, conduct of Microsoft, Google, conduct of Microsoft, Google, and other companies and other companies and other companies that “shadowily” that “shadowily” that “shadowily” edit our edit our edit our sermons and sermons and sermons and Bible studies Bible studies , even if only by , even if only by , even if only by one or two percent. one or two percent. They can, you know, They can, you know, shift the emphasis of shift the emphasis of shift the emphasis of sin from objective sin from objective sin from objective guilt to guilt to guilt to subjective guilt, to subjective guilt, to subjective guilt, to feeling, instead of feeling, instead of feeling, instead of reality in the reality in the reality in the face of a holy God. face of a holy God. Um, they could Um, they could talk more about talk more about talk more about "brokenness" and less "brokenness" and less "brokenness" and less about sin. So there are about sin. So there are about sin. So there are countless ways countless ways countless ways they can they can they can subtly edit the subtly edit the subtly edit the Christian Christian Christian message on a message on a message on a global scale global scale . So I'm a little, I'm a little . So I'm a little, I'm a little . So I'm a little, I'm a little worried about that. worried about that. worried about that. What other What other What other dangers exist? Um, I dangers exist? Um, I dangers exist? Um, I think there is a think there is a think there is a huge danger huge danger huge danger to our thinking. to our thinking. to our thinking. Um, in 2008, there was an article in the Um, in 2008, there was an article in the Review of General Review of General Review of General Psychology called Psychology called Psychology called "Writing as "Writing as "Writing as Thinking," which Thinking," which Thinking," which argued that argued that argued that writing is a form of writing is a form of writing is a form of thinking, just as thinking, just as thinking, just as speech is a form of speech is a form of speech is a form of thinking. What thinking. What thinking. What happens when you happens when you happens when you know 100 words, 200 words know 100 words, 200 words know 100 words, 200 words here, then 1,000 words there here, then 1,000 words there , and all this thinking becomes , and all this thinking becomes , and all this thinking becomes automated, and we automated, and we automated, and we just become people just become people just become people moving blocks?

moving blocks? moving blocks? I find this I find this I find this dangerous. Some dangerous. Some dangerous. Some MIT research MIT research MIT research showed that people who showed that people who showed that people who used ChatGPT used ChatGPT used ChatGPT for their essays had an for their essays had an for their essays had an extremely low extremely low extremely low level of retention, level of retention, level of retention, even of what they themselves even of what they themselves even of what they themselves contributed to their contributed to their contributed to their work. They didn't work. They didn't work. They didn't handle it handle it handle it properly. And I properly. And I properly. And I think that pastors and think that pastors and think that pastors and other people who are other people who are other people who are engaged in ministry engaged in ministry will lose thousands, will lose thousands, will lose thousands, tens, and hundreds of thousands of tens, and hundreds of thousands of tens, and hundreds of thousands of words of reflection that are words of reflection that are words of reflection that are so important, so important, so important, so critically so critically so critically important to us.