Funded Founder Fridays: E16

Welcome to Funded Founder Fridays. This is episode 16, the journey behind the founder experience, leadership, and what's next with Chris Kelly. Um, on Funded Founder Fridays, uh, we create the space for founders and funders to ask honest questions about the startup journey. Every Friday, we explore a theme that impacts every founder, investor, mentor, and builder in the innovation ecosystem. I'm Rosa, CEO, and co-founder of Creative Bank, where we're centered on exploring the relationship between safety, creativity, and innovation. And today, Ben is with me, but we also have a guest, and we'll introduce him in a second. Uh, but my co-host, [snorts] Ben. >> Hi, everyone. Um um another episode 16th episode that >> been here for 16 episodes and that's exciting. I'm Ben Kobati. I'm the CEO and founder of Noble Founder Noble Innovative Solutions and Ruby Capital.

Happy to be here with Chris today. >> Hello. Thank you for having me here today. It's an honor to be here and you know talking about the a topic that is near and dear to my heart which is networking. >> Yes. Uh so let me just read a little bit of who you are before we start asking you all of our questions. So Chris Kelly is a sales professional with 30 years of experience who specializes in helping people to stand out in competitive pursuits such as jobseeking, raising capital, and generating business. Drawing on his background in sales, marketing, and personal experience, navigating an eighth month, eight-month job search, Chris developed the Make Me the Chosen One program to help professionals connect directly with decision makers, communicate their industry expertise, and secure meetings. This approach challenges traditional transactional methods by applying strategic relationship building industry in by by applying strategic relationship building industry insights and personal positioning to help people build trust in a world where trust is at an all-time low. So again, thank you so much for being with us, Chris. Um, >> thank you for having me here today. I see that with, you know, you have the pumpkin here. So, I'm glad, you know, with Halloween being here, it's a great time to talk about the tricks of networking and the treats that can go along with it.

>> Awesome. >> Yes. >> And share just a tiny I I want to double click on that last slide of where trust is at an all-time low. Let's just start. I know we're throwing off the the order a tiny bit, but absolutely share a little bit about that and just your history. Right. I'll share with you something that that's came to my attention in the last couple of months. >> So, have you ever heard of something called the Consumer Sediment Index? >> So, this is an index through the University of Michigan that looks at people's trust levels of governments, brands, basically of society as a whole. And it started about 50 years ago. And if you look at the trust levels over time, it's historically been at a very high level. And then there are peaks and valleys. And the valleys, the valley valleys have been times like 79 and 80 when the Iranian crisis was going on, the great recession 2008, 2009, COVID, but everything always kind of got back up to a normal level. When you started looking at CO, it did start going up. Then it started going down again. And it never got back to the level of where it is today. In May of 2026, it hit its all-time lowest level.

Never was at a lower level than it is. And it's not recovering. >> And you start looking like why? What is going on today? And there's a number of different things. But like if you look at things like unemployment, the GDP, the stock market, all those things look fine. But today, right now, we're in a we're in a place where trust is at an all-time low. And for me, I look at it in terms of AI. I look at it in terms of just the social media, the things that are going on today. It's making it people are very distrustful of what they're seeing because of these things, >> right? And and so why networking intentionally matters so much more, right? So that we can continue to develop that trust or >> Exactly. So if I look at the last six years, I mean I've been in sales for 30 years and the techniques that worked from like 1996 worked pretty well up until co and when CO happened and people started working from home in-person events went away and everyone started leaning on the electronic mediums like phone and email and that just >> really put a glut of things into people's inboxes where they couldn't keep up today. We've now got into the AI world, and AI can create content at a

speed that that has never been seen before, >> which sounds as though that could be good, but there's also a lot of negative parts that go along with it, and that people are inundated with information. I think we've got to the point right now where there's so much content out there and there's so many different opinions on how to do these things that we're literally at a standstill in a lot of organizations because they can't make heads of tails of what's going on >> because people are just overwhelmed. And I think that contributes to the trust deficit that we have in society today. >> Yeah. Just like stimulation overload. [laughter] >> Exactly. I mean, just go through your feeds on any of the social media posts and the one that I focus on the most is LinkedIn. I mean, you have people posting all the time about different things that are going on and a lot of it looks alike because of AI. If you're creating all your content with AI and you're not bringing in that humanity or that human touch to what you're doing, you're never going to stand out from the pack today. So long story short, the things that worked in 1990 or even worked I would say up until the time of CO no longer work in 2026 and I don't think we're going back. I think the AI engine has left the station and

everything we do now is really building yourself as being the most trustful source of information and you're going to have to do it in a way to really stand out from the pack and really, you know, lean into your humanity more than anything else. >> Right. So before we we speak more about your expertise and everything, let's let's start with with how how you got into this from the beginning, like just a little bit of your history. What experiences growing up or just in your early career kind of led you to networking and I think some edtech as well um and just the professional you are today. >> Yeah. So I started my career in academic publishing. I worked in that field from 1996 to 2009. And for me, I was in sales. I did very well. And it was always going on campus, meeting professors, talking to them about their courses. It was interesting because I got to meet some of the smartest and brightest people in the fields that they worked in. And I focused mostly on computer science and engineering textbooks. In 2009, I started a pivot from calling on, you know, working for these companies or the publishing companies to calling on these companies to help them build their digital products, which is a very different sale. And I did well for a number of different reasons. One, I was not afraid to pick up the phone or go to a conference or send an email. I was very

good at prospecting and getting in front of clients. And back then the bar of getting a meeting was very low. I mean, if you just showed up and you sent a message and you called somebody, getting a meeting was relatively easy. Also, you know, because I was in the field for a long time, I built up a lot of knowledge of what was going on in the space. So, I was able to talk to these customers in a way that made me sound like I knew what I was talking about where I actually knew very little about how to do what it was that I was actually talking about. So, I developed this art of being able to talk about programming and academics and knowing what they were doing, but I had no idea how to do any of it, which is like the most funny part of all this. And it's still it is still that way today. Um but then I also started going to a lot of conferences. I started going to conferences on a national level. I started going to conferences on a local level. So that kind of built the foundation of what I started doing forward. But again the bar was really really low really up until co if you did these things just you know looking at numbers and outreach you could get a lot of meetings by doing these things. And then starting around 2020 everything changed >> you know so let me ask you one thing do

you think being a salesperson is something you are born with or you need to learn like in your case you're saying like it was like easy you were just going there you did it naturally is it more natural or you know is by training >> it's a combination of both but you can definitely get the training to be good enough at sales. So, when I coach my clients, there are five things that I try to coach them around when it comes to professional networking. And these five skills have similarities, but there's also differences. My point of what I try to do, and there was a great post, do you guys do you guys know Taylor Golden who's in the Houston tech scene? >> Oh, that sounds familiar actually. So, I met her recently at an event at ION. And she did a post the other day about, you know, if you're a founder, there's many things you need to know how to do, and they're going to be things that you're really good at and things that you're not so good at. And those things that you're not good at, try to find ways to work around them. Whether it's outsourcing or just getting good enough.

For me, if you are an introvert or you are a person who struggles with any of these five things, just get to the point where you're good enough and play into your strengths and those things can be learned. >> How was it for you? Like are you good at selling? Like are you a natural person? Um you just go out and just sell it naturally. you don't like make any effort to do it or you start you know uh building those skills uh to become like a really successful sales position. >> Yeah. So if you look at sales sales is a set of 11 activities that have no rhyme or reason to each other. They're all completely different. So if you look at it from the top of the funnel, getting people coming into the funnel and then getting them to that, you know, stage where they're interested and then doing scoping and then negotiating, my strengths really lie at the top 50% of the funnel. So >> hence the networking.

>> Hence the networking piece. Exactly. So I can talk a really good game with people and understand what they're talking about and empathize with them and understand what it is they do and pro provide them guidance about better ways of doing things. When you start getting into the part of okay we now have to put this into a plan and execution. I then rely on other people to help me with that and I will help and I do help with closing of the deals but my expertise is really on that top of funnel >> getting people interested nurturing them and getting them to the point where >> they're ready to talk business and be able to do the things that are required to you know look at things from a technical perspective >> then you hand them off to Ken >> hand [laughter] them off to Ken Exactly. But the thing I will tell you is the the work that is required in that 50% of the funnel in the last six years has gotten significantly harder >> due to remote work, >> but also everything that's going on with, you know, AI creation and what I call transactional >> ways of, you know, trying to sell and transactional ways of trying to communicate.

>> Yeah. Wow. Well, we we cut you off at at everything changed in 2020. >> Yeah. So, [laughter] >> that was a little bit of a >> Okay, hold on. Thank you very much. >> So, the first change was co. So, when I looked at what I was doing around sales, you know, it was a combination of in-person events. It was reaching out to people via phone. I wasn't doing much with social media at that point. And that was one of the biggest changes when I developed my program was adding that social media piece. >> But again, the bar was really low. It was easy to reach people. If I we me being an edtech, so say for example, there's a company here in Houston called Accelerate Learning. They have an office here in Houston. If I was able if I if I was going to get a meeting precoid, I could probably get a meeting with five or six other people in that building and really make a day of it. And even in extreme cases, I would get into the building and I could walk through the entire building and find the people that I needed to find.

And with co >> networking, >> that all ended because remote work became more and more prevalent. So, if I'm calling on a company like Accelerate Learning, yeah, they have people here in Houston, but they also got people in California, and they got people in Massachusetts, and they have people in North Dakota and all around the country. So, the ability to see them face to face in one swoop became really, really difficult. And during COVID, when there was no in-person events that were going on, you really had to rely on email as a way to reach people. Companies like Apollo, who have people's mobile numbers that you can now get to reach people, that was really in its infancy. >> But that really changed everything because everyone started flooding the electronic mediums and the inboxes just literally got inundated. And a lot of it was bad messaging. And that's a big thing that I try to work on with my the people that I work with is to come up with a messaging that resonates and wants to get people to respond to you because I can remember during co >> like the early days like just trying to reach out to people and it was crickets.

>> I mean because everybody was doing the same thing and people's inboxes were literally flooded. >> Wow. >> Interesting. >> Wow. So, that was that and then we started going back to in-person events slowly and it didn't happen fast. Then AI came onto the scene and a lot of the stuff that you could do with tools like Constant Contact or any of these email tools like HubSpot or Apollo, a lot of it required manual efforts. But now like you can create content with AI, post it on social media, you know, use it in an email campaign. You can get AI tools to do phone outreach on your behalf with an AI bot. So everyone started buying into these tools and it literally created a glut of content and a glut of email. So everything that was happening during COVID has now accelerated many many many many times over and again it's creating overload and it's creating indecision.

>> Yeah. >> Which is why a big part of my program is in-person events. But as we will talk about as we go through this, you still have to embrace the electronic mediums. That is one of the five things that you have to be doing as you do as a part of this. Because one of the biggest things that I've seen that I just find mind-boggling is the number of people that will go to an in-person event, make a great connection, and never follow up with that person. [laughter] Never. And it's like, how does that happen? >> That's the biggest problem for startups, right? >> You know, we have all these different and really good networking events here at Houston. So you go to ion, you go to cup of joey, you meet a lot of great people and nothing really great is coming out of it, >> right? >> And you know it's because no one really really follow up or no one really does anything about it. So when you work with startups, when you work with people and founders, um what is the starting point?

>> Great question. So first of all to your to the point about the follow-up. So, one of the things that I try to do when I coach people is to provide the structure >> to follow up a to keep the conversation going, but also knowing that a person that you meet now may be someone that you may be calling upon a year, two, three years from now when they're ready to do business or you may need them. So, you have to build and nurture those relationships. But the number one thing that I work on in client with my clients when I go through my coaching program and we spend five weeks on this is strategy. Because if you go into a networking event and you make it all about you, I have 30 years of experience. I have done this. I solve the world's hunger problem. you know, name whatever it is that does not build credibility. It is literally the same thing that everyone else is saying and you're not going to stand out from the crowd. So when I work with people, we really focus a lot on the strategy of what their ICP is, what is going on in their marketplace, what are some of the insights that you have about what's going on in this market and how you could be doing it better or different today given the direction that you're going. You can go to all the events in the world. You can do all the

outreach. If you do not do this step, all the other parts are going to be really, really difficult. So, the most important thing that you can do as a founder or as a job seeker or as a fractional is to do that strategy piece first because until you have that piece down, all the other pieces are going to be really difficult to execute upon. >> Yeah. And and how you it's how you keep your team aligned, right? like if you have a team or if you're trying to to communicate your mission or your vision to anybody else. >> Yeah. >> Having that strategy is I mean how how else are you how else are you working, right? Like how else are you going out there? Because I do see that, you know, I do see people that go to networking events and they're kind of like what what do you do? Like what what kind of questions do you ask? Like they don't they don't know why they're there, >> right? So [laughter] when I coach people to go to networking events, I have them come prepared with four insights of what they see that's going on in the marketplace. It is never about pitching.

It is always talking about the challenges that are going on in the space. And when I see someone who's a novice, so I'm going to put this in three lenses. So if someone's looking for a job, usually the first words out of their mouth is, "I'm unemployed. This is what I've done. Can you help me find a job?" That does not build trust, right? >> Like you need to build the trust first, which is why we do all the strategy and asking questions and ask for make the ask later once you've built trust >> that you are a person that that they're they're going to align with. If it's a product, so if I look at companies who are building tech products, it usually comes out that they have their laptop or mobile device and they're ready to do a demo and tell you every feature about the product. Again, it does nothing to build trust. And then the third piece is like when you look what you know when you look at fractionals and this this is the piece that's really really interesting when it comes to fractionals is that they're really good at the job that they do. They know all the things that are going on in their market. When they start talking about the nitty-gritty details of those things, which is going to make them a great person to work at that company, that actually hurts them. and getting the opportunity because it does nothing to build trust nor does it do anything

to in inspire somebody to want to hire you. >> So, what have you found is like the main because that's a mindset shift, right? To >> it's a huge mind shift change >> to talk to talk about spec some things as opposed to what's ultimately building trust. So, so where in your coaching would you call it or or your training like where do you see that shift happen for the people that you're working with or how does that happen? >> Right. So, in my program we work on five mind shift changes and the most important one is rather than focus on your skills and accomplishments, think about all the big problems that you've solved in the past. What did you do well? What would you do differently if you're going to do this challenge today given all the changes that have happened? And the big one, as we all know, is AI. How would you do it today given what's going on?

>> And when you meet someone, you ask questions, you're inquisitive. It it's more of a conversation and you focus on these things and you give advice on how to solve these problems. So rather than being laying back on your prior accomplishments, start pivoting to here's how I think we need to solve these problems today. Brand yourself as being a problem solver >> and making it about them, right? >> Yeah. Making it about them. I mean, so a good friend of mine back in Boston, Jeff Seagull, if he's listening right now, gave one of the told me one of the best lines when it comes to job seeeking. If you're looking for a job, the best thing you can do is that you stay active and employed in the field that you're in, but you're now looking for your next paid opportunity. And what does that mean? You're still putting out insights into what's going on in your field. You remain members of professional organizations. You still go to networking events. You remain highly visible, >> which is something that a lot of people struggle with is that they become invisible. Or if you're a fractional like you you have 150% of capacity right now but you stop doing all the things that you need to be doing around business development. You need to remain visible by doing things like this speaking joining professional organizations.

Those are things that I really harp upon in my program. >> Thank you. Because that helps us. >> Absolutely. So if [laughter] if you're looking for more guests, being on an event like this is something that I strongly encourage people to do in their networking journeys. Yeah, I mean it's definitely I mean we've talked about it just setting up some sort of workshop or some sort of ongoing [clears throat] training for for the founders and the for for our noble founder ecosystem um for them to be to be able to speak and for them to to have training because I mean just us here right with all the work that we do that's something that that we struggle with just >> founders knowing how to be comfortable speaking in front of a camera let alone >> 100% >> to other But [laughter] >> right, >> when it's them just speaking alone in front of a camera, >> just how how how far that goes, right? And public speaking is is >> what the greatest fear or the second greatest fear.

>> Oh, yeah. Death. I forget what it is. >> People would rather like I I I can't remember what it is, but there's something would something that's really scary. People would rather do that than actually public speak. But I will tell you, when you public speak, you bring a level of credibility that you're not going to get from other places. >> But the key, and this is the key that I want to hit back upon, like when you were talking about the events at ION, >> you got to follow up. You got to keep those conversations going. If you just get in front of a stage and you never >> build a connection, you never follow up, you don't do any of those things, all of those things are going to be for not. So when I look at my program, [snorts] strategy is a huge piece. Mind shift changes are a huge piece. But the big piece is structure. >> It's doing the followup, but doing it in a way that really hits upon those two things that I mentioned earlier. >> Yeah, >> I think strategy is very important. You know, a lot of people when they go to networking, they don't have even environmental awareness like they're looking for the highest paying person in the, you know, crowd. They're you're looking for, oh, who's the who's the really uh the the investor? Who's the the customer? They don't really even scan anybody. They don't have any strategy. They just get there uh trying to hunt down the next investor, the next customer. It's just like a, you know, shotgun effect. You know, you just go

and you just uh look for somebody that, you know, seems to be your next customer [laughter] >> you know. And I you can you just you know uh go more in depth on on the strategy part of it like having those environmental awareness when you like enter the room like how you just scan the room even. >> Yeah [snorts] it's a great question. So let me break this into into two pieces. So before I go so early on in my program I work with my client on creating something called superstars. So when I first started this program, it was focused almost exclusively on job seekers. And what I said to the people that I was working with was, "Look, you're going to get asked a stark question in an interview. Tell me a situation when you had a deal with an unruly customer and what did you do and what was the outcome?" And I looked at that and I said, "Look, this is a great question and it does help you predict how well someone's going to do that job in the future. However, there are two problems with those questions. One is that you're not sharing them in advance because getting that meeting is harder today. If you're not sharing those insights in advance, getting that meeting is going to be almost in difficult given the world that we live in today where we're in AI over, you know, AI overload. So, that's number

one. But number two, it doesn't give you any indication of what is going on in the future and how you're going to solve that problem. It is completely based on the past. So before you go to a networking event, and this is where the strategy comes in, I get my clients to create about six to nine superstars to be able to talk about them at networking events, post them on LinkedIn, talk about them in events like this. It's >> these are your talking points. this is what you're this is what you're going to talk about. When it comes to going to an event, there's two ways an event can be worked. One, if if I'm going to a national conference, I get the list of people in advance of who I want to connect with and start reaching out to them in a way around the superstars that I created to show them and I really thought about the challenges that are going on in this industry and making them more likely to want to communicate with me. But at an event where at like Cup of Joey where it's you know people just showing up and all of that getting to that person becomes that much more difficult.

But again the approach is always around talk with the person about what you see that's going on in the field. At the end ask make your ask. Don't make your ask first because that's what a lot of people do. Make the ask the the last thing that you do and then find out who should you be talking with. But here's the key in all of this. This is another mistake that a lot of people make. They leave it to that person to make the connection for them. That never happens. Never ever ever ever happens. Because what happens in most cases, that person gets busy with life and they forget about you. And if you just sit there and wait for that person to make a connection on your behalf, you're going to be waiting a long time, if not never. >> So I always say, great, who is this person? Do you mind if I use their name? I will reach out to them directly. You have to be proactive. Like the proactive piece of networking is really critical.

>> Right. Right. Man, that's so that's so useful useful for all of our founders here. like we just >> how has the so your coaching do you coach just whoever are you coaching mostly professionals um yeah job seekers like >> so I' I've done a pivot to my program so if I look at the the kind of the demographic of the person that I work with I am trying to teach them basic general networking skills for the most part right now I'm working with people of the age 40 and up um I was actually just talking about this with someone today and I cannot figure it out for the life of me but 80% of my clientele is women >> which I find really interesting. I think it's in part because I've been in the edte space for so long. I think that has a big piece to do with it. [gasps] >> But I'm working with people who are job seekers. I'm working with people who are fractionals and fractionals typically have worked for an extended period of time in order to get to that point where they could be a fractional. And I'm also working with founders and they have to find a way to monetize their network. Um the approach is pretty much the same whether you're in any of those three categories. The nuances are going to be a little bit different. Um Ben, one question I want to ask for you because this came up at an event that I attended in Boston about six [clears throat] weeks ago. I was at an event with a group called Mass TLC and a founder

said, "What is the best thing that I can do right now to raise money?" And the people who were on the the panel all said the same thing. Start networking 18 to 24 months before you go out and ask for money. Would you agree with that statement? you know, I have a different view on it, but I have I agree with that. >> Yep. >> So, my uh my take on it, if you're going to do networking, go do network with the people that you can learn from them. >> Yep. >> Go network with the people that they can share the hardest, the most painful problem that they have. >> Yep. and you know identify how you can solve that problem and I use your program like how you can become that superstar like how you can become that person that uh give them what they're desperately looking for >> right >> and you know if you don't do it and if you just go and ask for money is not going to work >> oh agree agree agree agree like if you just go there and say I want a check for a million dollars or $5 million and you just show up good luck it ain't going to happen. So like I agree. So if I'm hearing you correctly, a lot of it is doing that research, talking with people, going to networking events, all those things, right? So when you do come ask for money, you're you're known, you're prepared, you're all of those things.

>> And you know, like you just said on very important thing, you're building two things. You're building relationship first. >> Yep. >> When you do do networking, even like the with a VC, >> it's kind of like dating, right? You know, the first Absolutely. You know, you just go, "Hey, I'm Ben. Give me, you know, $10 million." It's just like someone you just met and just, "Hey, are you going to marry me?" It's not going to be a yes. >> No. >> Yeah. >> It's just like and then >> Well, networking is not the bachelor, >> right? Exactly. [laughter] You're just going to go there, get to know them. >> I think it is. >> And exactly with your methodology like I I I just met this VC. We just met. I'm going to build the relationship. Next event I'm going to follow is going to be speaking at the other event. I'm going to go to other event follow-ups, right? That's kind of like the first part of it. And the second part of it is if you think about uh your customers, >> people that you wanted to find and you want to get to know them better. So when you go to your investors even you can tell them, hey look, I I have been working and networking and working with these people for 10 months now. I know this industry in and out. I know all the problems. I know like hey have you been in that you know conference five of my customers are coming.

>> Yep. >> You see like this is how you raise money. It's just all about building relationships. >> Absolutely. And one of the things I think is really important that is getting embedded in the community and that's where joining professional organizations >> really resonates and if you can get on the board of those professional organizations even better you know. So when I look at you know the world of learning and development and edtech a world that I've done a lot of work you have organizations like ATD um you have these different professional organizations that you can become a member of and if you go to those events of like-minded people and you build relationships with those people and you know you become the most trusted person in that community that's what's going to get you ahead in many cases. So joining those organizations and doing the things that you talk about, you're preaching to the choir on this. >> Yeah, absolutely. But the a lot of time the problem is [snorts] people are desperate. Yep. you know, >> you start building a company, you are really um excited. Instead of doing the networking from day one, you go back to your room like close the door, [laughter] build the product, you know, waste, not waste, you know, just spend, I don't know, 10 months. You now you're running out of money. Now you don't have any other resources. All credit cards are maxed out. No one your mom and dad

are just don't talk to me. Right? And now you're just all of a sudden, oh my god, I need to go and do networking. That's too late. >> Agreed. You have So I have come to the conclusion that networking is a lifelong skill that you need to obtain from a very early age. We live in a very different world from when my grandfather worked at General Electric for 50 years and walked away with the pension. That does not exist anymore. People are changing jobs. People are starting companies. People are becoming fractionals. And what you need in order to do that is you need to build a network. And if you if you think you're going to build a network at the time when you need that ask and going to do a very good job at it, you're you're you're going to be in for a shock. >> I believe in two things. One, I believe very strongly in the growth mindset. Are you guys familiar with the growth mindset? >> Where you're constantly impro, you know, self-improvement, always learning. to your point when you go to events and you you ask people and you always go back.

So that is number one. But number two is it's it's a continuous process. It's a continuous evolution. Like you have to go out and network to the best of your ability. So, one of the things when I've done the revamp of my program, I've actually put in time blocking and time scheduling because one of the things that I found with people that I worked with, particularly founders, they get so into the weeds of building their product and they say they're going to go out and network and by the time the week has passed by and they spent all of their time in their hotel room or their apartment and they've, you know, haven't shaven, they haven't done any of those things >> or slept >> or or slept, the networking gets left behind and it just puts them further behind in their >> pursuit. Yeah. It's just kind of like we're [snorts] laughing because we are [laughter] doing it like you know it's kind of like sometimes just to look at us like you know what happened didn't sleep last night. Even us as like fun founders is just the same the same story. But like you mentioned AI and we cannot ignore it. Right.

>> Right. >> Is is there and it's going to be there and it's going to be even more advanced. [snorts] Right. So if I'm a founder and if I'm looking at uh getting prepared to go do the networking let's say you know I'm a founder I understand the value of networking and I'm starting today and I wanted to build that 18 24 months you know uh time of building my network getting out how can I use AI towards my advantage >> it's a great question [laughter] >> and how is it a disadvantage >> it's a great question So the number one thing I want people to do when they go out and network is to embrace their human voice. So I I I tell people I don't want you saying things that everyone else is saying. So if I go to chat GPT and say create me a prompt and post about it on LinkedIn and then the next person does it and the next person does it, it's all going to look alike.

>> GPT stocking. >> Yeah. [laughter] It's GBC. Exactly. So what what I tell people is I want you. So here's the line of so this is safe. As you go this way, you start getting into the to the lines of you're saying things that are different than what everyone else is saying. And then when you cross this line, you get into the line of crazy. You're the person at in Aruba who's wearing the tickytac bathing suit that really makes you stand out from everyone else. I want you bouncing into the wall of crazy all the time. I literally b want you bouncing off of that wall like saying things and giving insights that are not in line with what what everyone else is saying but it's not something that's that that's way out there. >> So embracing your human voice and embracing you know authenticity could you know the growth mindset all of those things is really really important.

Now, can AI help you in networking? And the answer is absolutely yes. But it's more around the structure. It's more around, you know, the thinking and it's more around organizing. So, for example, one of the tools we use in my program is a tool tool called Apollo AI or IO, sorry. It's a tool that will automate sending out emails. It is a tool that you can use to find people's email addresses and telephone numbers. Um, that is a really good use of AI. So, it's more of a tool behind the scenes to help you organize. I have no problem with people using AI as a point to craft their initial statement and to get ideas of things that they may not have thought about. But ultimately, at the end of the day, if you're going to be the most trustworthy person out there, you have to be authentic and what you say has to be your human voice. Because if you're relying on AI for that piece of it, and you just blast out things all about you and your years of accomplishments and I done blah blah blah blah blah, you're not going to stand out and you're not going to build trust in this process.

So, so what does trust building look like? >> Because because you're going up against trust being at an all-time low, just the AI slop that's everywhere, right? Yep. >> Um like what was it yesterday that we had like all these cyber attacks like the most cyber attacks that we've we've seen all I don't know if you saw >> Yeah. PHP. >> Yeah. With PHP. >> Oh yes. I'm well aware of this. Yes. So, how do you how like I feel like it's it's exponentially more difficult to even build the trust because of because you're like going upstream with all these things. >> It is it is way more difficult to do today than it's ever been before. But there's three things that I would say is really important in doing this. So, one is think of yourself as being a problem solver. Think about how do you solve problems. Don't think of yourself as being your past accomplishments and skills, which is number two. When you go out and you network and you do it, whether virtual or or in person, do not pitch. Do not talk about your product and it does boom boom boom boom boom.

That is the shorefire way not to build trust. But the third one, which is what we've hit upon a little bit earlier, it's consistency. >> It is consistently staying in touch with that person. And again, do not pitch. You know, I will send emails to people who say, "Hey, I just came across this study. This talks about X, Y, and Z. You know, I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. This is what I think is going on, >> and this is what I think the industry needs to You do need to include your POV, but make it more of a as a conversation starter. Provide a solution and then say, I would love to chat with you about this. But keep in mind, people may not get back to you, right? >> You know, it's kind of the reality of where we are today in 2026 with the busy schedules that we have. >> But you have to do it on a consistent basis. And that's where the structure is so important. So, if I was to take the three points that I said and I would put them down to two, do not pitch. This is not, you know, [clears throat] this is not pitching about how great you are.

It's about pitching about the challenges and the problems that are going on in the market, but build in that level of consistency. And it's kind of like going to the gym. The more you go out and the more you practice, you build up that networking muscle versus saying, "I'm going to do this for five days and then give up on it and come back at New Year's and say, gee, I need to lose 30 pounds, [laughter] you know, >> by tomorrow, >> right? I have I have that problem right now when it comes to working out, but that's a whole other conversation." But the more you build that muscle and the more you build this into your daily lives, the better off you're going to be, >> right? >> Very interesting. You know, I it just reminded me of I got a inmail message on LinkedIn like you get like thousands of them every day. Y >> especially when you are a VC like you know you get like quite a you know big number of people reaching out. But very interestingly one of the messages that I replied it was just some you know somebody just messaged me said hey you're in VC and I found this uh statistics and this you know data very interesting for you and it was really interesting.

>> Yeah. >> So I I didn't even most of the time I just clos it but when I looked at it I was just like oh this is so interesting. I just open it. I said like are you guys providing this information? He said, "No, like this is something I I just found interesting to you, but this is what we do." And the conversation started. >> Yep. >> It was so interesting. Yeah. And I was just like, "Oh, everybody should do the same thing." Like even if I'm pitching to like a family office as a VC, I shouldn't say, "Oh, we are the best of the class, blah, blah, you know like but oh did you know like in Houston that we have like this type of all the useful information that it will just help them rather than you know pitch us you know that's very interesting >> yeah because so here's the thing you got to keep in mind because of the content overload and when you look at this consumer sentiment index and where it is right now it's at its literally its all-time lowest and I don't think we're ever going to get back to where it Does >> are we ever going to trust again?

>> No. Well, everyone is right now we live in a society where everyone is distrustful out of the gate and you have to keep that in mind like the the trust levels are really really low and you have to think about how you position yourself to become that trustworthy person. >> And it's not a sprint. It's continuously showing up and it's not pitching. I get I mean like everyone else in my email I get things every day >> that are like oh you know we do boom boom boom boom boom and I literally do the same thing delete delete delete but that makes it harder for everyone else right now which is why the structure is so important because when you get that message in in in meal right now you're automatically thinking this is someone who I don't want to talk with and people are coming at it from that same perspective. And then you throw in the overload. You check your messages on inmail, you check your email, you check, you know, Skype, you check, you know, WhatsApp, you check here. Like that is part of the big problem today that you have to think about how you're going to work your way around because we're literally on communication and content overload.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yes, we are. [laughter] Hey, I was going to say something, but but now I'm deeply thinking about how we're we're in content overload and why it's that's going to say that it's like with the consistency, it's I think people are looking to slow down >> and to like I keep hearing more and more like with your with your in-person events, right? And that's a lot of what we do here, too. >> Yep. >> Bring people together in person so you can see each other face to face so you know you're who you're talking to. you know, it's a human that you're talking to. Um, but in in that consistency and I mean, because a lot of the space that we're creating and and why we're we're providing what we're providing is to bring people together so they can network and so they can meet and and talk and because because that's how you build an ecosystem, right? Like, >> right. So the inerson piece is really interesting because when I look at precoid there were lots of in-person events and then co shut that down and it's now taken time to build that back up to I'm thinking we're getting to the point of where we were precoid I don't think we're quite there yet but we're getting pretty close >> but in the world of AI in the world of technology today people are less distrustful of what they see virtually so now they're craving these inperson person events because they've been stuck behind their computer for so long. And I look at the in-person events as being

one of the five things that you need to be doing simultaneously when you are networking. But the thing that I've seen a good in-person strategy do if you're relying just on electronic outreach, it may take 20, 25, 30 attempts to hear back from somebody. If you meet someone face to face, that closing the distrust gap becomes much smaller, >> right? >> Much much smaller. The person that you're able to communicate like we're doing today, that builds trust more quickly >> than any electronic medium or any AI tool. That's why in-person events are so valuable, provided that you do it in the way that we talk about that you don't pitch, >> right? >> That it's all about where the industry is going and how you think to solve these problems and you're conversational and you follow up. >> Right. >> Yep.

>> Right. >> Wow. Feel like all our founders need to need to hear this. We need just like an extension. We need a whole series of this Chris. >> [laughter] >> And I think we we got to do like a workshop, >> right? What is what is what does the what is it make me the chosen one? >> Yes. >> So it's what how long is it? What's the program like? I know we've been talking about it and you've been referencing it a lot, but just structurally >> Yeah. So I'm in the process of doing a major change right now. So, I launched it in 2025 and it's a program that's 12 weeks long where it's um coaching for 90 minutes and I purposefully do cohorts. So, the reason why I do the cohorts is I feel that everybody learns from everyone else and you also get instant practice networking with the people in your cohort. And people that have been in my cohorts have helped other people with different things and different skills. They meet as a team. They do all of these things to help each other out, but then they have the digital curriculum that goes along with it. But the thing that really stands out in all of this, this is where the biggest two changes have been made. One is it's really focusing on the mind shift changes because what I have seen when I coach people you can teach them all about networking and how to do all the skills around followup and in person and all of

that. If you still think about the world the way it was in 1996 and you try to do this it's going to be very difficult. So the first thing that we have to work on is the mind shift changes. And the thing that's really interesting is when you look at if you're going to sell to a company, the number one thing you have to do is get them to make mind shift changes. I mean in many cases like they're thinking of the world this way, you're trying to get them to think about it this way. If you can't get them from here to here through mind shift changes, you're never going to sell them anything. So that that's where it gets really interesting around this. But then the second piece is around the execution of how to do all these steps. How do you get on an event like this? How do you join a professional organization? How do you structure an email? How do you structure a LinkedIn post? All those things are part of this.

However, the mind shift changes and the strategy comes first. >> Yeah. Wow. Well, we're we're almost out of time. Yeah. Do we have any Do you have any other burning questions, burning thoughts? >> Lots of questions, lots of thoughts, lots of great discussions. But I think we're going to continue this conversations like I think this is very valuable because we have founders. They're coming here even in our own networks. >> Yep. >> Networking events even here at the studio. And you know they we have like great people here >> but we have seen a lot of time founders are just looking for like investors or other people they don't you know really get uh the time that they need to talk to other people other you know stakeholders and most of the time they don't follow up you know uh they don't do all the other stuff that they need to do to get the the value of like our our events. So I feel like we got to do a lot more of this conversation, Chris.

And >> absolutely, >> you know, I think that's that's great. It's it's it's I think is essential to any founders journey. >> Yeah. I mean, we talk about our our dance floor, right? That we have that we have >> the funders on one side and the founders on the other side and there's no music playing. the middle school dance, you got the boys and the girls and everyone's like [laughter] >> and you know just it's just kind like a dance >> the networking part right the dance and the dating like you know like people don't dance and when they dance they don't date when they you know it's is it's getting nowhere you know >> they're like dancing different types of music like [laughter] >> right so there is there's a closing thing I would recommend to everyone and this post is sitting on my computer right now which will be going out next week So, [snorts] we are now a little over two and a half, actually a little under two and a half months away from the new year. And people make New Year's resolutions all the time and they often don't stick, you know. So, usually they involve things like weight loss. They involve things like I'm going to, you know, do better at this, better at that.

My suggestion if you are a founder or a job seeker or a fractional or anyone who needs to learn the skill of networking stop what you're doing today and start doing it now. I had a big weight loss change back in 2012 2013. Actually I went to the nutritionist on November 1st. It was my New Year's resolution. I started it on November 1st. Six months later I was 50 pounds lighter. So the best thing you can do is rather than procrastinate, delay, start obtaining the skills today. Start doing it because the the the quicker you get into it, the better off you're going to be. And it is going to require doing some things that are uncomfortable, but you can break things into small pieces. But the quicker you start doing this and the the the more you start saying I'm going to do this today rather than putting it off to a future date, the better off you're going to be in obtaining these skills.

So my suggestion is and if you want to talk I can provide you with some very basic things that you can do right from day one is start on this now because procrastination is definitely the killer when it comes to networking. >> Wow. >> Awesome. So you know I really recommend to our [snorts] uh you know founders go online you know find Chris uh on LinkedIn connect with him start the conversation and have meaningful conversations you know it's just always very valuable when you connect with people that they can help you and advance you like all the coaches all the people that really uh help others is is the initiative that the startups and founders should you know they need to start it they need to initiate 100% I'm agree with you on just do it today >> yeah and the other thing I'll say and this is you know I did a a I do a weekly podcast we did uh a talk about why it's important to go on the offensive in sports by being proactive when you network you don't want to be on your heels you want to be on offense and driving the conversation and it literally literally driving forward at all times and that is an important part of networking. Now for people who are naturally introverted, I know that can be really hard to do but again I see

this as being five different steps or five different things that you have to do simultaneously. You don't have to be an expert in all of them. It's just a matter of being good enough is what's going to get you through at the end of the day. But the big one that I can't harp upon enough, follow up, follow up, follow up. If you go to these events, make sure you're following up with all the key people because all the work that you're going to do is going to be for not if you don't follow up, >> right? Consistency, right? And I think so much of trust is people knowing that you can deliver what you say, right? Like you putting your walking your talk, >> right? Like so for example >> someone may say at the beginning of the new year I'm going to start walk doing 10,000 steps a day. >> Well think about this in the same way like what are some little things that you can do to get started so you can ramp yourself up. So, my advice to anyone, whether it be networking or [snorts] weight loss or any type of skill that you've been procrastinating, literally find a way to start today because the longer you procrastinate, the harder it's going to be to actually get started in these areas.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much again Chris. >> Thank you >> for being with us. >> Well, thank you for having me. Shout out to everyone out there. It's been great. And if you want to connect, look look me up on LinkedIn and I would love to chat, >> of course. Um, and yeah, thank you for such an important conversation on on trust and networking, which is crucial for all of our founders here at in our noble founder ecosystem. >> Um, and definitely something that we'll keep talking about as as we go and >> definitely have you back like definitely invite you back to see what we can learn and Y. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Awesome. Um, thank you to anybody that watched online and to the few that are here in our studio audience. We love y'all. Shout out to our sponsors 801 Trevis and the Innovation Hub and our partners Iron Grove and Approachable and Noble Innovative Solutions. Um, we'll see y'all next week, same time. Awesome.

Bye. >> Bye everybody.