Scott & Mark Learn To...Scroll TikTok

Informal beginning . . . You like it. You like it. You like it. You like an You like an You like an informal start informal start . I was going to say that . I was going to say that . I was going to say that we should somehow we should somehow we should somehow liven up the conversation with the liven up the conversation with the TikTok reaction that TikTok reaction that Rob suggested and see if Rob suggested and see if Rob suggested and see if we can get you we can get you we can get you fired up. fired up. Yes. I'm sure Yes. I'm sure it will be easy to do it will be easy to do . . . No, yes. You are known for No, yes. You are known for No, yes. You are known for your your your unpredictability, unpredictability, unpredictability, and you are easily thrown into and you are easily thrown into and you are easily thrown into emotional turmoil in a short emotional turmoil in a short emotional turmoil in a short period of time. This is quite period of time. This is quite period of time. This is quite fascinating. fascinating. fascinating. Hey, by the way, what Hey, by the way, what Hey, by the way, what was that? Join was that? Join was that? Join me Mark, and wait, what me Mark, and wait, what me Mark, and wait, what was that? How did you was that? How did you was that? How did you formulate that? What formulate that? What formulate that? What was that? Join was that? Join O. O. Join a bunch of Join a bunch of Join a bunch of cool people and cool people and cool people and Mark will be there too. Yes. Mark will be there too. Yes. Mark will be there too. Yes. Yes. Yes. It was, it was on It was, it was on LinkedIn. Eh, that made me LinkedIn. Eh, that made me LinkedIn. Eh, that made me smile. About smile. About smile. About three people got the three people got the three people got the joke. joke. joke. I understand. I understand. I understand. Yes? Yes? Yes? Although this is not a joke. This is not Although this is not a joke. This is not Although this is not a joke. This is not funny. funny. funny. This, this is not funny. You're This, this is not funny. You're This, this is not funny. You're pretty annoyed pretty annoyed pretty annoyed about this.

about this. about this. Yes. Yes. Let's see if Let's see if people, let's discuss those people, let's discuss those people, let's discuss those who talk about it. who talk about it. Yes, let's go. I'll be Yes, let's go. I'll be joined by a bunch of joined by a bunch of joined by a bunch of cool people, as well as cool people, as well as cool people, as well as Mark Rusinovich. But Mark Rusinovich. But Mark Rusinovich. But good things. Good good things. Good good things. Good comments. And Mark, comments. And Mark, comments. And Mark, people are very happy to people are very happy to people are very happy to see you. OK. So, see you. OK. So, see you. OK. So, Mark, I know you're a Mark, I know you're a Mark, I know you're a big TikTok fan and big TikTok fan and big TikTok fan and spend a lot of time spend a lot of time spend a lot of time on TikTok. on TikTok. I just, I'm constantly I just, I'm constantly flipping, constantly. flipping, constantly. flipping, constantly. Constantly on TikTok. Let Constantly on TikTok. Let Constantly on TikTok. Let me show you something me show you something me show you something here. The first one is here. This is here. The first one is here. This is here. The first one is here. This is Sinead Bovell on TikTok.

Sinead Bovell on TikTok. Sinead Bovell on TikTok. Let me see if Let me see if Let me see if you can hear that. you can hear that. you can hear that. I see it. I can't hear. I see it. I can't hear. I see it. I can't hear. Folks, we may be the Folks, we may be the Folks, we may be the last generation to last generation to last generation to read, and I don't see read, and I don't see read, and I don't see this this this ending well. Reading ending well. Reading ending well. Reading does more than does more than does more than just provide just provide just provide information. It information. It information. It trains the brain trains the brain trains the brain to maintain attention, to maintain attention, to maintain attention, follow follow follow the argument the argument the argument over time, and over time, and over time, and come come come to an interpretation on its own. The to an interpretation on its own. The to an interpretation on its own. The reason why reading is reason why reading is reason why reading is so exhausting is so exhausting is so exhausting is because because because it is so it is so it is so unnatural to us. unnatural to us. unnatural to us. Our brains are literally Our brains are literally Our brains are literally being rewired, being rewired, being rewired, rewiring rewiring rewiring neurons from the desire neurons from the desire neurons from the desire to receive visual to receive visual to receive visual information, which is what information, which is what information, which is what we were created for, to we were created for, to we were created for, to understanding understanding understanding abstract symbols abstract symbols , i.e. words. But everything in , i.e. words. But everything in , i.e. words. But everything in our modern our modern our modern information information information environment deprives environment deprives environment deprives us of this. The information us of this. The information us of this. The information is presented in a 60- or 90- is presented in a 60- or 90- second second second video format, either video format, either video format, either a headline or a a headline or a a headline or a key takeaway. With a key takeaway. With a key takeaway. With a news feed news feed news feed that builds a worldview that builds a worldview that builds a worldview for you. Even for you. Even for you. Even education has long since education has long since education has long since moved away from moved away from moved away from requiring long requiring long requiring long readings to short readings to short readings to short passages. Now when passages. Now when passages. Now when you add AI to the mix, you add AI to the mix, you add AI to the mix, it can literally it can literally it can literally make judgments for make judgments for make judgments for you. It's not just what you. It's not just what you. It's not just what it means to you, but what it means to you, but what it means to you, but what you should you should you should do next. You do next. You do next. You no longer need to no longer need to no longer need to search for information or search for information or evaluate it yourself. That's why evaluate it yourself. That's why I'm concerned about what I I'm concerned about what I I'm concerned about what I call the cognitive call the cognitive call the cognitive divide—the gap that divide—the gap that divide—the gap that exists between people exists between people exists between people who consciously bring who consciously bring who consciously bring cognitive difficulty cognitive difficulty cognitive difficulty into their lives, into their lives, into their lives, choosing great choosing great choosing great books, pondering books, pondering books, pondering ideas, searching for ideas, searching for ideas, searching for information and information and information and arguments, and those who arguments, and those who arguments, and those who choose environments where choose environments where choose environments where all of this is done for them.

all of this is done for them. all of this is done for them. The more complex The more complex The more complex our world becomes, the more our world becomes, the more our world becomes, the more important it is to think critically, important it is to think critically, important it is to think critically, deeply, and independently deeply, and independently deeply, and independently about it. The about it. The about it. The optimal solution, optimal solution, optimal solution, of course, is of course, is of course, is structural changes in structural changes in structural changes in technology, schools, technology, schools, technology, schools, and institutions, but and institutions, but and institutions, but until that happens ( until that happens ( and I wouldn't count on it and I wouldn't count on it and I wouldn't count on it ), we ), we ), we can make different choices every day can make different choices every day can make different choices every day : bring these : bring these : bring these difficulties into our difficulties into our difficulties into our environment, choose to environment, choose to environment, choose to read a book read a book read a book instead of an audiobook, instead of an audiobook, instead of an audiobook, if possible, if possible, if possible, engage with engage with engage with extended extended extended arguments, essays, or arguments, essays, or arguments, essays, or articles instead of a articles instead of a articles instead of a simple headline. simple headline. simple headline. If you are studying If you are studying If you are studying or listening to something, be or listening to something, be or listening to something, be fully immersed in the fully immersed in the fully immersed in the process, rather than doing process, rather than doing process, rather than doing five things at once five things at once . And sometimes just . And sometimes just . And sometimes just do nothing, do nothing, do nothing, letting your letting your letting your mind get bored. With mind get bored. With mind get bored. With all these all these all these small steps, we small steps, we small steps, we can maintain these can maintain these can maintain these abilities. Reading and abilities. Reading and abilities. Reading and these cognitive these cognitive these cognitive efforts strengthen efforts strengthen efforts strengthen the very tool the very tool the very tool through which you through which you through which you perceive the world. perceive the world. perceive the world. What do you think? I What do you think? I What do you think? I actually saw an essay—I don't actually saw an essay—I don't actually saw an essay—I don't know if it was hers or someone else's—about the know if it was hers or someone else's—about the end of the era of end of the era of end of the era of reading. reading. reading. Mhm. Mhm. And I really think And I really think we're probably we're probably we're probably moving in that moving in that moving in that direction. direction. direction. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean, if I mean, if I mean, if you look at the numbers— you look at the numbers— yes, if you look yes, if you look yes, if you look at the percentage of at the percentage of at the percentage of Americans who Americans who Americans who read books, it's been read books, it's been read books, it's been steadily declining steadily declining , and now that decline is , and now that decline is , and now that decline is even accelerating even accelerating .

. Yes. And there is a significant Yes. And there is a significant gap. It's not that gap. It's not that gap. It's not that they simply " they simply " read fewer books." read fewer books." read fewer books." They don't read at all They don't read at all They don't read at all . There are people who have . There are people who have . There are people who have n't opened a book n't opened a book n't opened a book since school. Yes. But since school. Yes. But more more book clubs and book clubs and book clubs and book TikTok book TikTok communities are emerging among enthusiasts. It turns out like this communities are emerging among enthusiasts. It turns out like this communities are emerging among enthusiasts. It turns out like this : if you love : if you love : if you love books, you love books, you love books, you love them even more now. So them even more now. So them even more now. So we see people we see people we see people resisting by reading resisting by reading resisting by reading more. And other people more. And other people more. And other people just give up and just give up and just give up and say, “No, I’m done. " say, “No, I’m done. " say, “No, I’m done. " Reading is not my thing." Reading is not my thing." Reading is not my thing." I wonder if we were to I wonder if we were to I wonder if we were to break this down by age break this down by age , would we see that , would we see that , would we see that book clubs are book clubs are book clubs are more popular among the more popular among the more popular among the older generation? older generation? Because these people Because these people grew up on books. grew up on books. grew up on books. Yes. Yes. Yes. As for young people, the As for young people, the As for young people, the minute they minute they minute they graduate from school or are graduate from school or are graduate from school or are not forced to not forced to not forced to read anything, they read anything, they read anything, they stop reading. stop reading. stop reading. But, you know, I have But, you know, I have But, you know, I have two boys. One is two boys. One is two boys. One is 18, the other is 20. 18, the other is 20. 18, the other is 20. Although they are actually 19 Although they are actually 19 Although they are actually 19 and 21. They are both and 21. They are both and 21. They are both in college. They are both in college. They are both in college. They are both good boys and good boys and good boys and do everything that is do everything that is do everything that is required of them in their required of them in their required of them in their studies. But one of studies. But one of studies. But one of them is definitely a reader. He them is definitely a reader. He them is definitely a reader. He himself started reading Camus himself started reading Camus , looked for Nietzsche and so on , looked for Nietzsche and so on , looked for Nietzsche and so on . Goes to . Goes to . Goes to Powell's bookstore and buys Powell's bookstore and buys Powell's bookstore and buys strange long works.

strange long works. strange long works. He's just He's just He's just set up that way for some reason. And the other one set up that way for some reason. And the other one set up that way for some reason. And the other one reads quite well, but I reads quite well, but I reads quite well, but I wouldn't say he's the kind of guy wouldn't say he's the kind of guy wouldn't say he's the kind of guy who reads "War who reads "War who reads "War and Peace" on the bus. So and Peace" on the bus. So and Peace" on the bus. So it's a generational thing, it's a generational thing, it's a generational thing, but sometimes kids get but sometimes kids get but sometimes kids get hooked on it, they hooked on it, they hooked on it, they start reading and start reading and start reading and get hooked on it. But get hooked on it. But get hooked on it. But we read to both boys we read to both boys we read to both boys from birth. from birth. Yes, but I assume that Yes, but I assume that the percentage of people like the percentage of people like the percentage of people like your first son is very your first son is very your first son is very small. small. Yes, that's probably Yes, that's probably fair. fair. One of the challenges, One of the challenges, especially for me, is that especially for me, is that especially for me, is that over the past 3 over the past 3 over the past 3 years, my years, my years, my book reading speed has book reading speed has book reading speed has dropped significantly. And dropped significantly. And dropped significantly. And the reason is that I the reason is that I the reason is that I try to keep up with try to keep up with try to keep up with information in information in information in the field where we work, the field where we work, the field where we work, that is, in AI. that is, in AI. A lot of information appears almost every day. And I A lot of information appears almost every day. And I spend time staying spend time staying spend time staying informed informed informed instead of instead of instead of reading books like I reading books like I reading books like I used to. used to. used to. I wonder what you're saying I wonder what you're saying . I'm trying to master the . I'm trying to master the . I'm trying to master the Born of the Born of the Born of the Mist series by Brandon Mist series by Brandon Mist series by Brandon Sanderson, although I used to be Sanderson, although I used to be Sanderson, although I used to be able to read a able to read a able to read a book in a week. And book in a week. And book in a week. And now I'm reading now I'm reading now I'm reading four pages and passing out four pages and passing out four pages and passing out in bed. Yes. I don't know in bed. Yes. I don't know in bed. Yes. I don't know if this is cognitive if this is cognitive if this is cognitive payback for a long payback for a long payback for a long day. But I have a Kindle, and day. But I have a Kindle, and day. But I have a Kindle, and I've been doing this for 10 years, I've been doing this for 10 years, I've been doing this for 10 years, you know? I get into you know? I get into you know? I get into bed, grab my Kindle, bed, grab my Kindle, bed, grab my Kindle, start reading, and start reading, and start reading, and literally devour the literally devour the literally devour the book in a week. And book in a week. And book in a week. And now I can barely manage

now I can barely manage now I can barely manage five pages, and I don't five pages, and I don't five pages, and I don't think it's just think it's just think it's just old age. I think it's old age. I think it's old age. I think it's just the brain saying that just the brain saying that just the brain saying that this is no longer rest. this is no longer rest. this is no longer rest. Well, for you it's not Well, for you it's not Well, for you it's not just a lack, it's not a just a lack, it's not a just a lack, it's not a lack of time. You still lack of time. You still lack of time. You still have have have this time. There is time, but this time. There is time, but this time. There is time, but the body says "no". the body says "no". the body says "no". Overload, yes. Overload, yes. Overload, yes. This is cognitive This is cognitive This is cognitive burnout. burnout. burnout. Cognitive burnout Cognitive burnout ? ? ? Yes, that's a word Yes, that's a word Yes, that's a word someone made up, I someone made up, I someone made up, I saw it in an article saw it in an article saw it in an article a few months ago. a few months ago. a few months ago. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. My youngest My youngest My youngest sometimes tells me, and sometimes tells me, and sometimes tells me, and he doesn't have any he doesn't have any he doesn't have any learning disabilities or learning disabilities or learning disabilities or dyslexia that we dyslexia that we dyslexia that we know of, but he says know of, but he says know of, but he says that after a while that after a while that after a while the words seem to just the words seem to just float by, and I float by, and I suggested to him that suggested to him that suggested to him that he hold... he hold... let me let me let me try to get try to get try to get the stand. It's like you're the stand. It's like you're the stand. It's like you're holding a holding a holding a horizontal line horizontal line horizontal line above the text, just above the text, just above the text, just to keep attention. to keep attention. But I think But I think social media social media social media has played a huge has played a huge has played a huge role in that, role in that, role in that, starting with that starting with that starting with that stream of short stream of short stream of short snippets that are snippets that are snippets that are fed to you, and as she fed to you, and as she fed to you, and as she said, they provide said, they provide said, they provide information that you don't have to information that you don't have to process. These are process. These are small pieces. These are all small pieces. These are all small pieces. These are all small small small pieces. And this has pieces. And this has pieces. And this has led to the fact that led to the fact that led to the fact that people do not have the people do not have the people do not have the concentration concentration concentration to cope with to cope with to cope with large amounts of large amounts of large amounts of work, because the brain work, because the brain work, because the brain needs to be trained.

needs to be trained. needs to be trained. Yes. It's Yes. It's Yes. It's very easy to get out of very easy to get out of very easy to get out of this workout once this workout once this workout once you get used to the you get used to the you get used to the dopamine hits dopamine hits dopamine hits from scrolling that from scrolling that from scrolling that you mentioned you mentioned you mentioned earlier. earlier. earlier. Right. Right. Right. Oh. Oho. Now Oh. Oho. Now Oh. Oho. Now why would I read a why would I read a why would I read a book where I won't get a book where I won't get a book where I won't get a dopamine hit, but dopamine hit, but dopamine hit, but only perhaps a long only perhaps a long only perhaps a long and slow process. and slow process. and slow process. Right. It's the Right. It's the Right. It's the mental mental mental equivalent of "eat your equivalent of "eat your equivalent of "eat your vegetables," and you're like, "no, vegetables," and you're like, "no, vegetables," and you're like, "no, I want gummy I want gummy I want gummy bears." One of the things bears." One of the things bears." One of the things she said she said ...well, maybe you ...well, maybe you ...well, maybe you noticed...did noticed...did noticed...did you notice these tight you notice these tight you notice these tight montages where she montages where she montages where she took out all the "uhs" and the took out all the "uhs" and the took out all the "uhs" and the pauses between sentences pauses between sentences pauses between sentences so they would so they would so they would blend together quickly? She's blend together quickly? She's blend together quickly? She's an expert, Sinead an expert, Sinead an expert, Sinead Burke, or rather Sinead, is Burke, or rather Sinead, is Burke, or rather Sinead, is very knowledgeable about very knowledgeable about very knowledgeable about social media and education, social media and education, social media and education, and I've seen her and I've seen her and I've seen her cut out cut out cut out "uh"s and middle "uh"s and middle "uh"s and middle parts in long videos. parts in long videos. parts in long videos. We should do the same We should do the same We should do the same in our in our in our podcast. podcast. podcast. it. That would make your it. That would make your it. That would make your part much part much part much shorter. shorter. I was struck by the irony of how I was struck by the irony of how she did it she did it . . presented. presented. presented. Remember, I'm making Remember, I'm making Remember, I'm making you watch TikToks and you watch TikToks and you watch TikToks and react to them, and react to them, and react to them, and then talk about the then talk about the then talk about the death of reading through death of reading through death of reading through social media, which is social media, which is social media, which is caused by me...

caused by me... caused by me... You... you... You... you... You... you... Something else. She didn't Something else. She didn't Something else. She didn't say that say that say that her words implied that her words implied that this was very bad. this was very bad. I think she was implying I think she was implying I think she was implying that it was pretty bad, that it was pretty bad, that it was pretty bad, right? right? right? Okay, but why? Okay, but why? Okay, but why? You say there is no You say there is no You say there is no No, I say: let's No, I say: let's No, I say: let's talk about whether talk about whether talk about whether it's bad. it's bad. it's bad. Is this bad? Yes, why? Is this bad? Yes, why? Is this bad? Yes, why? Why is this bad? Why is this bad? Why is this bad? That's...Okay, that's a That's...Okay, that's a That's...Okay, that's a really great really great really great question because question because question because if you go on Twitter if you go on Twitter if you go on Twitter and write something and write something and write something like that, some like that, some like that, some commenter commenter commenter will answer you the same way will answer you the same way will answer you the same way you did. you did. you did. Oh, so what? Oh, so what? Oh, so what? I'm getting paid, I'm getting paid, I'm getting paid, right? Like, yeah, so right? Like, yeah, so right? Like, yeah, so what? This is bad. what? This is bad. what? This is bad. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to enjoy enjoy enjoy my life. Is that my life. Is that my life. Is that true? true? true? Or what? What's the Or what? What's the Or what? What's the problem? problem? problem? This is a problem This is a problem This is a problem about about about objectivity versus objectivity versus objectivity versus subjectivity. I could subjectivity. I could subjectivity. I could argue that this is argue that this is argue that this is objectively objectively objectively wrong, and someone wrong, and someone wrong, and someone would say, "No, no, this is would say, "No, no, this is would say, "No, no, this is subjectively subjectively subjectively wrong." It's like wrong." It's like wrong." It's like post-humanity, right? post-humanity, right? post-humanity, right? You are You are postmodern postmodern postmodern humanity. We...we are a different humanity. We...we are a different humanity. We...we are a different type of postcognitive type of postcognitive type of postcognitive people, but that makes people, but that makes people, but that makes people people people subcognitive. subcognitive. subcognitive. People don't People don't People don't think anymore. They just think anymore. They just ...they react ...they react ...they react based on feelings of based on feelings of based on feelings of hunger or fatigue.

hunger or fatigue. Yes. Okay, what's Yes. Okay, what's wrong with that? wrong with that? wrong with that? I guess I would say I guess I would say I guess I would say you're trolling right now, but... you're trolling right now, but... you're trolling right now, but... No, I'm not... Actually, I'm No, I'm not... Actually, I'm No, I'm not... Actually, I'm not really trolling. I'm not really trolling. I'm not really trolling. I'm just trying to just trying to just trying to pull it out, like... pull it out, like... pull it out, like... Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, I mean, Okay, I mean, Okay, I mean, I can make an I can make an I can make an argument that says... argument that says... argument that says... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Take, for example, the Take, for example, the Take, for example, the United States. United States. United States. Every U.S. citizen Every U.S. citizen Every U.S. citizen should have should have should have critical thinking skills, critical thinking skills, critical thinking skills, which can which can which can only be learned through the only be learned through the only be learned through the assimilation and processing of assimilation and processing of assimilation and processing of long-form long-form long-form information. information. information. Got it. Got it. Uh, you could...And this is Uh, you could...And this is necessary because necessary because necessary because every citizen needs to be every citizen needs to be every citizen needs to be able to able to able to think critically in order to make think critically in order to make think critically in order to make good decisions good decisions good decisions about who we about who we about who we elect as leaders in elect as leaders in elect as leaders in our society. Is that our society. Is that true? true? I could make I could make I could make this argument. this argument. this argument. Good. Good. Good. But you could also But you could also But you could also make the argument that make the argument that make the argument that you know what? It's up to you know what? It's up to you know what? It's up to the people to decide how the people to decide how the people to decide how they want to elect they want to elect they want to elect their leaders, and if their leaders, and if their leaders, and if they come, they come, they come, take pictures, have take pictures, have take pictures, have soundbites, and it soundbites, and it soundbites, and it gives them their dopamine gives them their dopamine — cool. Actually, — cool. Actually, — cool. Actually, you know, I think you know, I think you know, I think what I'm getting at—it's a what I'm getting at—it's a what I'm getting at—it's a pretty sensitive pretty sensitive pretty sensitive topic, especially in the times topic, especially in the times topic, especially in the times we live in. But we live in. But we live in. But the decline of critical the decline of critical the decline of critical thinking leads thinking leads thinking leads to the rise of to the rise of to the rise of authoritarianism.

authoritarianism. authoritarianism. You You You got into the topic very quickly. got into the topic very quickly. got into the topic very quickly. Remember how we Remember how we Remember how we talked about talked about talked about training and training and training and why training is why training is why training is important? And then you important? And then you important? And then you say, "Well, I could say, "Well, I could say, "Well, I could send my send my send my agent to train agent to train agent to train for me, and he would for me, and he would for me, and he would lift weights." lift weights." lift weights." Yes. Yes. Yes. And everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah, And everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah, And everyone's like, "Yeah, yeah, you could do that, you could do that, you could do that, right?" Um, you know, I'm right?" Um, you know, I'm right?" Um, you know, I'm sure it's nice sure it's nice sure it's nice to have a personal to have a personal to have a personal chef, but people chef, but people chef, but people have to cook for have to cook for have to cook for themselves, and those are the things that themselves, and those are the things that themselves, and those are the things that make us human. make us human. make us human. So, you could So, you could So, you could argue that argue that argue that thinking and the ability to thinking and the ability to thinking and the ability to think for ourselves think for ourselves is what makes us is what makes us is what makes us human, it's the struggle human, it's the struggle human, it's the struggle that generates growth, and that generates growth, and that generates growth, and I like your I like your I like your term "cognitive term "cognitive term "cognitive friction" that makes friction" that makes friction" that makes us evolve. If us evolve. If us evolve. If everything is done for you from everything is done for you from everything is done for you from birth, and all birth, and all birth, and all decisions are made by decisions are made by decisions are made by artificial intelligence, then artificial intelligence, then artificial intelligence, then what is left what is left what is left of humanity? This of humanity? This of humanity? This could be an episode of could be an episode of could be an episode of Star Trek where Star Trek where Star Trek where we have this we have this we have this Yes, but it's so, uh, Yes, but it's so, uh, Yes, but it's so, uh, abstract. Like, and abstract. Like, and abstract. Like, and again, it again, it again, it just means that you just means that you just means that you define humanity in a define humanity in a define humanity in a certain way and say that's what certain way and say that's what good is. good is. good is. Humanity is a good thing, is Humanity is a good thing, is Humanity is a good thing, is n't it? Like, what is n't it? Like, what is n't it? Like, what is this—this is the definition of what this—this is the definition of what this—this is the definition of what makes us makes us makes us human. Isn't that right?

human. Isn't that right? human. Isn't that right? But humans, you know, we But humans, you know, we But humans, you know, we weren't humans from the very weren't humans from the very weren't humans from the very beginning. We beginning. We beginning. We were something else. were something else. were something else. Right, but now Right, but now Right, but now we're humans, right? We are we're humans, right? We are we're humans, right? We are no longer monkeys. no longer monkeys. Yes, but I'm just Yes, but I'm just preparing these questions preparing these questions preparing these questions because I want because I want because I want the answers to be the answers to be the answers to be clearer than just " clearer than just " no, humanity is no, humanity is no, humanity is good." How I good." How I good." How I define humanity define humanity define humanity is the standard, and we is the standard, and we is the standard, and we must must must adhere to it. adhere to it. adhere to it. How we as a How we as a How we as a society society society define humanity define humanity define humanity as a standard, and if we are as a standard, and if we are as a standard, and if we are now posthuman, we have to now posthuman, we have to now posthuman, we have to address that address that address that as a group. as a group. as a group. Well, we are already like that to some extent Well, we are already like that to some extent Well, we are already like that to some extent , aren't we? , aren't we? , aren't we? Like Like Like OK, but one could OK, but one could OK, but one could argue argue argue that, well, why don't we all that, well, why don't we all that, well, why don't we all just do just do just do drugs? Because drugs? Because drugs? Because they make us they make us they make us feel good, and we feel good, and we feel good, and we can all just be can all just be can all just be high. There was once high. There was once high. There was once such a movie. I forget such a movie. I forget such a movie. I forget the name, where people the name, where people the name, where people essentially chose to be essentially chose to be essentially chose to be vegetables, they just vegetables, they just vegetables, they just slept in capsules, slept in capsules, slept in capsules, sent robots sent robots sent robots to do their to do their to do their work, and themselves work, and themselves work, and themselves were in a state of were in a state of were in a state of bliss or something bliss or something . These are all science . These are all science fiction situations fiction situations where you ask yourself where you ask yourself what it means to be what it means to be what it means to be human, and if you human, and if you human, and if you don't have to don't have to don't have to do anything and there's no do anything and there's no do anything and there's no struggle, then who are we— struggle, then who are we— just brains for the just brains for the Matrix? Uh Matrix? Uh Matrix? Uh , yes. I , yes. I , yes. I mean, but again mean, but again mean, but again , what is the higher , what is the higher , what is the higher purpose here and To purpose here and To purpose here and To support it, support it, support it, to support to support to support humanity and to humanity and to humanity and to support support support For what? For you, For what? For you, For what? For you, for society, and for society, and for society, and if society if society if society can function can function can function without it or a significant without it or a significant without it or a significant portion that chooses portion that chooses portion that chooses Well, then you Well, then you Well, then you get into power get into power get into power dynamics and an inversion of the dynamics and an inversion of the dynamics and an inversion of the Gaussian curve, where, you Gaussian curve, where, you Gaussian curve, where, you know, the very poor know, the very poor know, the very poor here and the very rich here, here and the very rich here, and now when you

and now when you and now when you turn everything around, you're turn everything around, you're turn everything around, you're just left with the just left with the just left with the very poor and the very very poor and the very very poor and the very rich. rich. rich. But actually, that's pretty much what But actually, that's pretty much what But actually, that's pretty much what I was I was I was talking about. The loss of talking about. The loss of talking about. The loss of critical thinking critical thinking critical thinking and the loss of education and the loss of education and the loss of education lead to lead to lead to the possibility of the possibility of the possibility of manipulation, which manipulation, which manipulation, which leads to the growth leads to the growth leads to the growth of authoritarianism and the of authoritarianism and the of authoritarianism and the further further further subjugation of the will of the subjugation of the will of the subjugation of the will of the minority. So if minority. So if minority. So if you have people who you have people who you have people who read, and they are the ones who are read, and they are the ones who are read, and they are the ones who are able to manipulate able to manipulate able to manipulate other people who don't other people who don't other people who don't read, then you are read, then you are read, then you are faced with exactly what I just faced with exactly what I just said said . . . Rightly. Good. Rightly. Good. Rightly. Good. This is a topic for an entire This is a topic for an entire This is a topic for an entire program. program. program. Yes. Well, yeah, I Yes. Well, yeah, I Yes. Well, yeah, I personally think it's personally think it's personally think it's bad, just bad, just bad, just because, I because, I because, I mean... mean... mean... When you...when you... When you...when you... When you...when you... No, but I believe it's No, but I believe it's No, but I believe it's bad. bad. bad. I feel like I feel like I feel like you're teasing me, you're teasing me, you're teasing me, man. man. man. Well, but I think it's Well, but I think it's Well, but I think it's bad for the reasons bad for the reasons bad for the reasons I just mentioned: a I just mentioned: a I just mentioned: a functioning functioning functioning just just just society requires an society requires an society requires an educated population, and educated population, and educated population, and that requires that requires that requires critical thinking, critical thinking, critical thinking, which requires reading. which requires reading. which requires reading. Okay. The Okay. The Okay. The last thing about this. She last thing about this. She last thing about this. She said something that I said something that I said something that I found interesting.

found interesting. found interesting. Good. Good. Good. It was: yes, people It was: yes, people It was: yes, people are getting their are getting their are getting their information, and they information, and they information, and they should read, or should read, or should read, or even listen to even listen to even listen to audiobooks. She audiobooks. She audiobooks. She said something about said something about said something about the audiobook not the audiobook not the audiobook not counting. counting. counting. No, she didn't No, she didn't No, she didn't say that. She said say that. She said say that. She said that reading...I that reading...I that reading...I mean, reading a mean, reading a mean, reading a paper book is better paper book is better paper book is better if you have one. We if you have one. We if you have one. We understand that understand that understand that receiving receiving receiving information is good, information is good, information is good, but she also but she also but she also argues that argues that argues that absorbing symbols through absorbing symbols through absorbing symbols through the eyes is a better route the eyes is a better route the eyes is a better route to the brain than through the to the brain than through the to the brain than through the ears. Which, in my opinion, is ears. Which, in my opinion, is ears. Which, in my opinion, is similar to the idea that similar to the idea that similar to the idea that driving a "manual" driving a "manual" driving a "manual" makes you a better makes you a better makes you a better driver than driving driver than driving driver than driving an "automatic". an "automatic". an "automatic". So, actually, I would be So, actually, I would be So, actually, I would be interested interested interested to see the data behind to see the data behind to see the data behind this. this. this. And this... And this... And this... One of the things: I've never One of the things: I've never , ever listened to an , ever listened to an , ever listened to an audiobook. I was just audiobook. I was just audiobook. I was just reading. But a lot of reading. But a lot of reading. But a lot of people I people I people I know only listen to know only listen to know only listen to audiobooks. audiobooks. audiobooks. You see, you remember, You see, you remember, You see, you remember, years ago there was a years ago there was a years ago there was a popular topic about popular topic about popular topic about learning styles: learning styles: learning styles: visuals, kinesthetics, and visuals, kinesthetics, and visuals, kinesthetics, and then a couple of then a couple of then a couple of years later they years later they years later they came back and came back and came back and said, "No, that doesn't said, "No, that doesn't said, "No, that doesn't work." "There are no work." "There are no learning styles." I learning styles." I reject this.

reject this. reject this. Learning styles absolutely Learning styles absolutely Learning styles absolutely exist. And I would say: exist. And I would say: exist. And I would say: use use anything to get anything to get anything to get information into your information into your information into your brain. And if it brain. And if it brain. And if it works, if works, if works, if audiobooks work audiobooks work audiobooks work for you, and you weren't a for you, and you weren't a for you, and you weren't a big reader, and it big reader, and it big reader, and it helps you helps you helps you absorb information absorb information , you can listen to , you can listen to , you can listen to complex things and complex things and complex things and absorb them— absorb them— great. My wife great. My wife great. My wife loves audiobooks. I loves audiobooks. I loves audiobooks. I alternate between both. alternate between both. alternate between both. You know how Whispersync and You know how Whispersync and You know how Whispersync and similar tools similar tools similar tools allow you to read a allow you to read a allow you to read a book on your Kindle, then book on your Kindle, then book on your Kindle, then get in the car, get in the car, get in the car, pick up where you left off pick up where you left off pick up where you left off —I —I —I drove from Seattle yesterday, drove from Seattle yesterday, drove from Seattle yesterday, listened to an audiobook, and listened to an audiobook, and listened to an audiobook, and then picked up where I then picked up where I left off . I like this . I like this . I like this model. model. model. But you do it because you can't But you do it because you can't But you do it because you can't read in the car read in the car , so... , so... , so... I literally only do it I literally only do it I literally only do it because I'm because I'm because I'm driving. driving. driving. It's not out of love for the It's not out of love for the It's not out of love for the format. Ahem. format. Ahem. format. Ahem. But for my wife, But for my wife, But for my wife, they were a real they were a real they were a real breakthrough in her breakthrough in her breakthrough in her doctoral work. She doctoral work. She doctoral work. She goes for walks goes for walks goes for walks and listens... and listens... and listens... I wonder if there I wonder if there I wonder if there have been any have been any have been any studies on studies on studies on memorizing and memorizing and memorizing and processing information from processing information from processing information from audiobooks compared audiobooks compared audiobooks compared to... I to... I to... I don't know. I will search, don't know. I will search, don't know. I will search, search and find out. search and find out. search and find out. Agree. Agree. Agree. Okay, let me Okay, let me Okay, let me show you something else show you something else show you something else in the same vein. This is from a in the same vein. This is from a in the same vein. This is from a young woman at Oracle.

young woman at Oracle. young woman at Oracle. You see, we're completely You see, we're completely You see, we're completely moving away from our moving away from our moving away from our usual... usual... usual... That's good, man. That's That's good, man. That's That's good, man. That's good. We are good. We are good. We are diversifying. diversifying. diversifying. So this is from Sophie, So this is from Sophie, So this is from Sophie, she's a she's a software engineer at Oracle. software engineer at Oracle. software engineer at Oracle. Tell me, can you hear that? Tell me, can you hear that? Op. Remember that Remember that episode with episode with episode with SpongeBob where he decides SpongeBob where he decides SpongeBob where he decides to become normal? to become normal? to become normal? Why are you sitting here Why are you sitting here Why are you sitting here locked up when the locked up when the weather outside is so normal? It weather outside is so normal? It just dawned on me: just dawned on me: just dawned on me: if you don't if you don't if you don't use AI use AI use AI correctly, I think correctly, I think correctly, I think sooner or later you too sooner or later you too sooner or later you too will become "normal will become "normal ." It is so important to ." It is so important to ." It is so important to keep asking keep asking keep asking questions, questions, questions, to stay to stay to stay curious, curious, curious, to try to to try to to try to solve things solve things solve things creatively, to read creatively, to read creatively, to read literature, watch literature, watch literature, watch movies, go to movies, go to movies, go to art museums. I art museums. I art museums. I just think it's just think it's just think it's critically important that critically important that just because we have just because we have just because we have this tool, we this tool, we this tool, we shouldn't let it shouldn't let it shouldn't let it replace and replace and replace and normalize everything normalize everything normalize everything around us, because then we'll around us, because then we'll around us, because then we'll just be walking around like a just be walking around like a just be walking around like a bunch of wooden bunch of wooden bunch of wooden beans. And... beans. And... beans. And... This... this is in the same vein. This... this is in the same vein. This... this is in the same vein. She is essentially saying: what about She is essentially saying: what about She is essentially saying: what about my humanity? my humanity? my humanity? He said we shouldn't He said we shouldn't He said we shouldn't normalize normalize normalize mediocrity. mediocrity.

Well, that's what we were Well, that's what we were talking about: AI is this talking about: AI is this talking about: AI is this "mediocrity." "mediocrity." "mediocrity." Statistical Statistical Statistical average. I was average. I was average. I was at Brendan at Brendan at Brendan Burns' event yesterday and said it was Burns' event yesterday and said it was Burns' event yesterday and said it was "average." And if "average." And if "average." And if you don't push it you don't push it you don't push it beyond the beyond the beyond the distribution curve, it will distribution curve, it will distribution curve, it will end up right in end up right in end up right in the middle. the middle. the middle. Yes. Ahem. Again, Yes. Ahem. Again, Yes. Ahem. Again, it seems to it seems to it seems to imply in her imply in her imply in her words that being " words that being " normal" is normal" is normal" is bad for you. Nor...But bad for you. Nor...But bad for you. Nor...But she doesn't explain why. she doesn't explain why. I'm curious that everyone I'm curious that everyone seems to know: being seems to know: being seems to know: being ordinary and not ordinary and not ordinary and not thinking critically, you thinking critically, you thinking critically, you know, not wanting to know, not wanting to know, not wanting to think critically, not think critically, not think critically, not wanting to read—that's wanting to read—that's wanting to read—that's bad. bad. Why are you so Why are you so fixated on the word " fixated on the word " why"? Well, you saw, why"? Well, you saw, why"? Well, you saw, um... um... Because I think if you... I'm Because I think if you... I'm fixated on the "why" fixated on the "why" fixated on the "why" because there are people who because there are people who because there are people who will say, "So what?" As will say, "So what?" As will say, "So what?" As you said. And what is you said. And what is you said. And what is your answer to them? And your answer to them? And your answer to them? And I am not satisfied with I am not satisfied with I am not satisfied with the answer: "Simply the answer: "Simply the answer: "Simply because of what humanity is like because of what humanity is like ." You know what? This is a ." You know what? This is a ." You know what? This is a personal choice. How can personal choice. How can personal choice. How can someone someone someone rely on rely on rely on objective facts? It's objective facts? It's objective facts? It's all...it's all thoughts about all...it's all thoughts about all...it's all thoughts about how we...why don't we how we...why don't we how we...why don't we just kill just kill just kill people, right? For example, people, right? For example, people, right? For example, I am better than you. I'll I am better than you. I'll I am better than you. I'll just kill you.

just kill you. just kill you. Then society Then society Then society will collapse. But you will collapse. But you will collapse. But you didn't tell me didn't tell me didn't tell me what? Society what? Society what? Society will collapse, you say? will collapse, you say? will collapse, you say? Maybe that's why. Maybe that's why. Maybe that's why. If you kill people If you kill people If you kill people for no reason, for no reason, for no reason, if you if you if you turn into turn into turn into a vegetable and just a vegetable and just a vegetable and just sit around, and sit around, and sit around, and food drones just throw food drones just throw food drones just throw food into your mouth. food into your mouth. food into your mouth. The Matrix is The Matrix is The Matrix is society, society, society, right? right? Well, I mean, to a Well, I mean, to a certain extent, right? certain extent, right? certain extent, right? If...if you want If...if you want If...if you want to be a battery, to be a battery, to be a battery, You know, I guess I'll You know, I guess I'll You know, I guess I'll go back to, go back to, go back to, let's dig a little let's dig a little let's dig a little deeper. Like, why are we deeper. Like, why are we deeper. Like, why are we saying this? saying this? I...let me I...let me rephrase. rephrase. rephrase. Let me try, I Let me try, I Let me try, I don't think this is a good don't think this is a good don't think this is a good idea. idea. idea. Well, so, hey, you know what? Well, so, hey, you know what? Well, so, hey, you know what? This is humanity. This is humanity. So I would argue So I would argue that unbridled that unbridled that unbridled capitalism and the desire capitalism and the desire capitalism and the desire to sell conclusions to sell conclusions to sell conclusions for money, under the for money, under the for money, under the pretext of making pretext of making pretext of making people better, more people better, more people better, more capable, capable, capable, force people who force people who force people who lack critical lack critical lack critical thinking to accept thinking to accept thinking to accept this as the norm, thereby this as the norm, thereby this as the norm, thereby shifting the shifting the shifting the Overton window so that they, Overton window so that they, Overton window so that they, not realizing what they are not realizing what they are not realizing what they are losing, will one day losing, will one day losing, will one day wake up like a frog wake up like a frog wake up like a frog in boiling water, not even in boiling water, not even in boiling water, not even noticing how noticing how noticing how hot it has become. We did it hot it has become. We did it hot it has become. We did it with social with social with social media. Social media. Social media. Social media has raised media has raised media has raised the temperature of the water, and the temperature of the water, and the temperature of the water, and now it's too late, we're now it's too late, we're now it's too late, we're all screwed. And all screwed. And all screwed. And artificial intelligence artificial intelligence artificial intelligence raises the raises the raises the water temperature and shifts the water temperature and shifts the water temperature and shifts the Overton window, and did you see Overton window, and did you see Overton window, and did you see that article about "meat that article about "meat that article about "meat proxies"?

proxies"? proxies"? Yes. Yes. Yes. Truth? You ask Truth? You ask Truth? You ask me a question, I me a question, I me a question, I ask the AI ​​and I ask the AI ​​and I ask the AI ​​and I answer you. Then answer you. Then answer you. Then why me? I am this " why me? I am this " meat proxy". Such meat proxy". Such meat proxy". Such professions will disappear. I professions will disappear. I professions will disappear. I think this is bad. think this is bad. think this is bad. So the question is, So the question is, So the question is, what does a real what does a real what does a real person look like? person look like? person look like? Good. Let me Good. Let me Good. Let me ask you about this. ask you about this. ask you about this. In fact, I'm watching In fact, I'm watching In fact, I'm watching this movie, which this movie, which this movie, which at one time painted a at one time painted a at one time painted a picture of where picture of where picture of where everything still seems to be everything still seems to be everything still seems to be heading. heading. heading. I know what you're I know what you're I know what you're leaning towards. leaning towards. leaning towards. Yes. I think many Yes. I think many Yes. I think many listeners know it too. listeners know it too. listeners know it too. Yes, "WALL-E." Yes, Yes, "WALL-E." Yes, Yes, "WALL-E." Yes, the movie "WALL-E". the movie "WALL-E". the movie "WALL-E". Yes, at the very end of " Yes, at the very end of " WALL-E". WALL-E". WALL-E". Yes. Ahem. Yes. Ahem. What is an oligarchy What is an oligarchy depending on your depending on your depending on your Yes. I think "WALL-E" Yes. I think "WALL-E" Yes. I think "WALL-E" is actually a more is actually a more is actually a more realistic realistic realistic view. We'll just view. We'll just view. We'll just have robots. have robots. have robots. Amazon drones Amazon drones Amazon drones will just drop food into your will just drop food into your will just drop food into your mouth. Someone will come and mouth. Someone will come and mouth. Someone will come and move your jaw move your jaw move your jaw for you. for you. for you. We will chew your food We will chew your food We will chew your food for you. This is not cool. This is for you. This is not cool. This is for you. This is not cool. This is not fun at all. not fun at all. not fun at all. Let them eat cake, Let them eat cake, Let them eat cake, right? right? right? In fact, is that true? In fact, is that true? In fact, is that true? Well, again, I Well, again, I Well, again, I think those people were think those people were think those people were perfectly happy perfectly happy perfectly happy swimming there, and swimming there, and swimming there, and But it's But it's But it's a reimagining of what a a reimagining of what a a reimagining of what a person looks like. And person looks like. And person looks like. And I think people I think people I think people are trying to are trying to are trying to resist and reclaim their resist and reclaim their resist and reclaim their understanding of what it understanding of what it understanding of what it means to be human.

means to be human. means to be human. So let me So let me So let me give you an example. give you an example. give you an example. I will give an example of someone who I will give an example of someone who resists. And you resists. And you resists. And you tell me what you think about it tell me what you think about it tell me what you think about it . That's good. . That's good. . That's good. I like this I like this I like this episode. episode. episode. I really want to hear I really want to hear why people say it's why people say it's why people say it's bad. bad. bad. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, Yes, yes, yes. Okay, Yes, yes, yes. Okay, this is Ashley Stribling. this is Ashley Stribling. this is Ashley Stribling. She was a PhD She was a PhD researcher at Google and researcher at Google and researcher at Google and now works now works now works independently. independently. independently. Regardless. a Regardless. a truly wonderful truly wonderful opportunity. opportunity. Devil. Wait. Devil. Wait. three like New York, which three like New York, which three like New York, which opposes opposes New York City's decision New York City's decision to ban and to ban and to ban and slow the slow the slow the use of AI in use of AI in use of AI in classrooms—this is actually a classrooms—this is actually a classrooms—this is actually a great opportunity great opportunity great opportunity for the tech industry for the tech industry for the tech industry to start to start to start talking more about the role of talking more about the role of talking more about the role of design. Hi, my design. Hi, my design. Hi, my name is Ashley. I'm a former name is Ashley. I'm a former name is Ashley. I'm a former Google researcher who Google researcher who Google researcher who explains the human side of explains the human side of explains the human side of AI. I say this because I AI. I say this because I AI. I say this because I think a lot of people think a lot of people think a lot of people will take this story will take this story will take this story as New York as New York as New York being anti- being anti- being anti- tech or anti- tech or anti- tech or anti- AI. And I really think AI. And I really think AI. And I really think it's more of an indication it's more of an indication it's more of an indication that the current that the current that the current design of these products is design of these products is design of these products is not delivering the not delivering the not delivering the results that results that the tech industry was hoping for. What this the tech industry was hoping for. What this means is that I means is that I means is that I think a lot of think a lot of think a lot of engineers engineers engineers are looking at AI now and are looking at AI now and are looking at AI now and seeing the seeing the seeing the potential for it to be an potential for it to be an potential for it to be an amazing amazing amazing tutor and tutor and tutor and democratize democratize democratize education, and education, and education, and talking about how talking about how talking about how often they often they often they use AI on the use AI on the use AI on the weekends to teach weekends to teach weekends to teach their kids how to their kids how to their kids how to code, and all these code, and all these code, and all these great times great times great times they have with it they have with it they have with it . But . But . But ultimately, the experiences that ultimately, the experiences that ultimately, the experiences that you hear about from you hear about from you hear about from teachers, parents, and teachers, parents, and teachers, parents, and students themselves—that's why students themselves—that's why students themselves—that's why design and real design and real user research, user research, how they actually how they actually how they actually use use use products in the contexts they're in products in the contexts they're in products in the contexts they're in , with the

, with the guidance they've received, with guidance they've received, with understanding their understanding their understanding their typical ways of typical ways of typical ways of interacting with interacting with interacting with technology—is technology—is technology—is incredibly important. incredibly important. incredibly important. Because the way Because the way Because the way you, as an engineer or you, as an engineer or you, as an engineer or someone who works in someone who works in someone who works in tech, tech, tech, use these use these use these products or products or products or teach them to your teach them to your teach them to your kids doesn't necessarily kids doesn't necessarily kids doesn't necessarily align with what's align with what's align with what's happening in the wider community happening in the wider community . So instead of . So instead of . So instead of impulsively reacting impulsively reacting impulsively reacting to these kinds of policy to these kinds of policy to these kinds of policy decisions, I think decisions, I think decisions, I think the bottom line is the bottom line is the bottom line is that if you that if you that if you really want less really want less really want less anti-AI politics, anti-AI politics, anti-AI politics, your products your products your products need to need to need to be better be better be better designed with designed with real human well-being real human well-being and and and cognitive function in mind from the start. cognitive function in mind from the start. cognitive function in mind from the start. This is great because it This is great because it This is great because it directly directly directly relates to what relates to what relates to what you said about you said about you said about AI training to AI training to AI training to train junior train junior train junior engineers to engineers to engineers to become better. I become better. I become better. I agree, but I also agree, but I also agree, but I also realized something while realized something while realized something while she was talking about she was talking about she was talking about how people how people how people use AI—the use AI—the difference between how difference between how difference between how technologists talk technologists talk technologists talk about it, how it about it, how it about it, how it can be can be can be used, and used, and used, and how people how people how people use it, use it, use it, brings us back to our brings us back to our brings us back to our earlier discussion earlier discussion earlier discussion about eating broccoli, about eating broccoli, about eating broccoli, reading versus reading versus reading versus scrolling through the news. And scrolling through the news. And scrolling through the news. And the fact that the human the fact that the human the fact that the human brain is lazy. Simply brain is lazy. Simply brain is lazy. Simply by nature. by nature. by nature. He will do the minimum He will do the minimum He will do the minimum necessary to necessary to necessary to achieve achieve achieve his goals, his goals, his goals, whatever those goals may whatever those goals may whatever those goals may be. Indeed, be. Indeed, be. Indeed, people are inherently lazy.

people are inherently lazy. people are inherently lazy. What percentage of children, What percentage of children, What percentage of children, if we made school if we made school if we made school optional, would choose to optional, would choose to optional, would choose to go to school? go to school? go to school? Yes, very small, 10%. Yes, very small, 10%. Yes, very small, 10%. Yes. And so it's the same. Yes. And so it's the same. It's like: what percentage of It's like: what percentage of children, given the choice of children, given the choice of children, given the choice of using AI using AI using AI as a tutor or as a as a tutor or as a as a tutor or as a world of entertainment. world of entertainment. What percentage of children would What percentage of children would eat vegetables instead of eat vegetables instead of eat vegetables instead of candy? candy? candy? Yes. Yes. Yes. But that's the thing. We But that's the thing. We But that's the thing. We as a society as a society as a society have decided that children have decided that children have decided that children should be in school until they are should be in school until they are should be in school until they are 18, ideally. 18, ideally. 18, ideally. Well, we decided this Well, we decided this Well, we decided this because society will because society will because society will fall apart if fall apart if fall apart if we don't have educated we don't have educated we don't have educated people who know how to people who know how to people who know how to run run run society. OK. society. OK. society. OK. The end of "WALL-E". Like, The end of "WALL-E". Like, The end of "WALL-E". Like, you think so, but you think so, but you think so, but if we all were if we all were if we all were , but you could , but you could , but you could have, but you could have, but you could have, but you could have, like I said, in a have, like I said, in a have, like I said, in a free society free society , in a democratic , in a democratic , in a democratic society, you society, you society, you want the entire want the entire want the entire population to be population to be population to be educated. educated. educated. Well, that's a great Well, that's a great Well, that's a great argument, Mark. Yes. argument, Mark. Yes. argument, Mark. Yes. You can, you're like, You can, you're like, You can, you're like, let's just have a let's just have a let's just have a small group of small group of small group of all educated people, you all educated people, you all educated people, you assume that 51% of assume that 51% of assume that 51% of them will vote them will vote them will vote correctly and say, correctly and say, correctly and say, yeah, we yeah, we yeah, we should probably regulate should probably regulate should probably regulate AI so it doesn't become AI so it doesn't become AI so it doesn't become stupid. But if everyone stupid. But if everyone stupid. But if everyone falls in love with AI and falls in love with AI and falls in love with AI and gets hooked on gets hooked on gets hooked on sweets, they'll sweets, they'll sweets, they'll say, "No, we're say, "No, we're say, "No, we're voting for voting for voting for gummy bears to gummy bears to gummy bears to be the base of the be the base of the be the base of the food pyramid, and we food pyramid, and we food pyramid, and we don't need proteins anymore don't need proteins anymore don't need proteins anymore ." Okay, " ." Okay, " Green Soylent" for Green Soylent" for Green Soylent" for everyone.

everyone. everyone. You won't have, that is, You won't have, that is, You won't have, that is, you... The thing is, you... The thing is, you... The thing is, you're putting them in you're putting them in you're putting them in a position where their, uh a position where their, uh ... ... They're voting against They're voting against their own interests. their own interests. their own interests. Yes, and they give up their Yes, and they give up their Yes, and they give up their rights. rights. rights. Right. Aha. Right. Aha. Right. Aha. And they say, "You know, it's And they say, "You know, it's And they say, "You know, it's cool as long as you cool as long as you cool as long as you put me in a put me in a flying chair and throw flying chair and throw flying chair and throw food in my mouth." food in my mouth." food in my mouth." Class. You understand. Class. You understand. Class. You understand. But also that chair... But also that chair... But also that chair... Like, let's give up Like, let's give up Like, let's give up our own information, our own information, our own information, let them monitor let them monitor let them monitor us, and they'll us, and they'll us, and they'll use that data use that data use that data to manipulate to manipulate to manipulate us, because you know what? I us, because you know what? I us, because you know what? I can scroll through the feed can scroll through the feed can scroll through the feed for free. for free. for free. Yes, this is the argument: if Yes, this is the argument: if Yes, this is the argument: if you don't pay, then you are the you don't pay, then you are the product. product. product. I will say that this episode is I will say that this episode is I will say that this episode is very different very different very different from anything we've done from anything we've done from anything we've done before. before. before. I like it. I like it. I like it. Mark reacts on TikTok. Mark reacts on TikTok. Mark reacts on TikTok. You know, it's You know, it's You know, it's close to you. close to you. close to you. I am delighted. I spent I am delighted. I spent I am delighted. I spent the day...well, not all day the day...well, not all day , but I was saving , but I was saving , but I was saving TikTok videos and thinking, "What would TikTok videos and thinking, "What would TikTok videos and thinking, "What would Mark say about this Mark say about this Mark say about this TikTok?" I have a TikTok?" I have a TikTok?" I have a whole series of bookmarks here whole series of bookmarks here whole series of bookmarks here because it's how I because it's how I because it's how I get news and get news and get news and information. information. information. Yes. I guess I need to get Yes. I guess I need to get used to it. used to it. Okay, if you Okay, if you Okay, if you like it, like it, like it, write in write in write in the comments. We are the comments. We are the comments. We are going to going to going to invite guests.

invite guests. invite guests. We are already discussing We are already discussing We are already discussing guest appearances on the show. guest appearances on the show. guest appearances on the show. But “Mark reacts to But “Mark reacts to But “Mark reacts to TikTok” is interesting. I TikTok” is interesting. I TikTok” is interesting. I like it. This is a like it. This is a like it. This is a separate topic. Because it separate topic. Because it separate topic. Because it simply stimulates simply stimulates simply stimulates discussion. I don't discussion. I don't discussion. I don't agree with some of what agree with some of what agree with some of what you say, and we're you say, and we're you say, and we're arguing here. This is arguing here. This is arguing here. This is fun. fun. fun. I think it was an I think it was an I think it was an interesting metaphysical interesting metaphysical interesting metaphysical conversation about what is the conversation about what is the conversation about what is the point anyway? point anyway? point anyway? Life is pain, Mark. Is Life is pain, Mark. Is Life is pain, Mark. Is n't that right? It must n't that right? It must n't that right? It must be heavy. be heavy. be heavy. Really? Who said? Really? Who said? Really? Who said? Buddha. Siddhartha. Buddha. Siddhartha. Buddha. Siddhartha. Truth? It's just, Truth? It's just, Truth? It's just, you know, supposed to be a little you know, supposed to be a little you know, supposed to be a little complicated. I'm, I, er, complicated. I'm, I, er, complicated. I'm, I, er, I'm stoic. I'm stoic. I'm stoic. 10% of people would agree 10% of people would agree 10% of people would agree with you. with you. with you. Yes, but I'm right. Yes, but I'm right. I think I'm a stoic. Do you know I think I'm a stoic. Do you know who wrote a great who wrote a great who wrote a great book about Stoic book about Stoic book about Stoic philosophy? Steven philosophy? Steven philosophy? Steven Hanselman. Honest Hanselman. Honest Hanselman. Honest word. word. word. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Not a relative. Not a relative. I Not a relative. Not a relative. I Not a relative. Not a relative. I tried to invite tried to invite tried to invite him to the podcast, but him to the podcast, but him to the podcast, but he didn't respond to he didn't respond to he didn't respond to my emails. my emails. my emails. Aha. Aha. Aha. But yes, he wrote "The But yes, he wrote "The Everyday Stoic". Everyday Stoic". Everyday Stoic". This is where our family This is where our family This is where our family paths diverged.

paths diverged. paths diverged. Aha. He went his own Aha. He went his own Aha. He went his own way, achieved success, way, achieved success, way, achieved success, and I'm talking to you. and I'm talking to you. and I'm talking to you. Yes, but we need to Yes, but we need to Yes, but we need to name this show, because name this show, because name this show, because if anyone has watched if anyone has watched if anyone has watched this far, this far, this far, they are better than the rest. they are better than the rest. they are better than the rest. And I congratulate everyone. And I congratulate everyone. And I congratulate everyone. If you liked If you liked If you liked this video, if you this video, if you this video, if you liked these liked these liked these reactions of Mark on TikTok, reactions of Mark on TikTok, reactions of Mark on TikTok, send me send me send me videos in the chat and we will videos in the chat and we will videos in the chat and we will use them for use them for use them for new conversations. So new conversations. So new conversations. So thank you very much. Please like thank you very much. Please like thank you very much. Please like and and and subscribe, subscribe, subscribe, I hope this I hope this I hope this episode takes off and episode takes off and episode takes off and reaches the same heights of reaches the same heights of reaches the same heights of positive content positive content that we already had on that we already had on that we already had on YouTube. YouTube. YouTube. Okay, see you Okay, see you Okay, see you later, buddy.